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The Stoned Philosopher

I totally agree,the only sure fire way to try and stop terrorism is to try and prevent terrorism from happening in the first place.
My opinion the way the US is gonna deal with terrorism like they deal with the WoD will not only not stop terrorism,it will cause more terrorist groups to form.
What we need to do in afganistan is remove the taiblan and help the afgani people out instead of bombing them into submission in which they already are bombed into submission.
This applies to other terrorist harboring nations as well,an example of this is iraq.(my best bet on the people behind this attack is hussen and his lackeys,bin laden is just a cia whipping boy)
If we took out hussen during the gulf war and helped out the iraqi people instead of trying to bomb them into submission then iraq would be as much as a threat now.
Also we need to reach a agreement with israel and their neihbors instead of knee jerking and backing up israel for doing terrorist like attacks against thier foes.
Most forms of terrorism would of been stopped if the US wasnt so arrogant in meddling with other peoples affairs and making people think the way they do (a prime example is how the us treats countries who dont follow thier WoD dogma) and taking advantage of other countires (like the cia taking over iran during the 50s in order to get cheap oil)

The Stoned Philosopher

 

magicmoe

"If we ask for NATO assistance, they will do it. "

yes, but they are not fully behind you.

"Apparently, you didn't listen. They're not in this for the money. Hell, Bin Laden is worth $250 million.........what is he in it for? Obviously not because of poverty.


Bin laden is not the one who is killing himself!

many people would react like them if they lose friends, family members and/or their home. Maybe you wouldnt. Maybe I wouldnt (dont know) but many would. Nobody is born as a terrorist. Thats all i mean
s hit and poverty means that all, poverty is just one of the reasons theey do that.




"I gave you the courtesy of not speaking for you. It's a shame that you can't afford me the same. "

read my post again
I said maybe you are special and you are not like them!!!!!

"There is that presumption again that someone is advocating killing everyone in Afghanistan"

If US is gonna do it the american way, yes. Not Everyone but many people.


"Funny how your answer to Happyman included a quote from me and a response to what I said"

I said more or less

all you said was: "In case you haven't been paying close attention, damn near every country of any size on the planet has said they'd back us up. NATO is fully behind us (including militarily) and the only people saying not to is Afghanistan."

And I disagree with that. And I included that in my first post


"My point is, that if you want to kill American civilians for your political cause (it is about politics and religion, poverty doesn't have sh*t to do with it), you should be made to pay with your life. "
true



"My point is that sitting in a circle and singing Kumbaya isn't gonna get it. We need to strike back and do it hard. That means terrorists either dead or in jail awaiting a needle in the arm and frankly, I'll vote for dead. "

But I see difficulties in getting those terrorists


send a special force to Afghansitan and kill him(Laden)
that might sound stupid but the only way i see.

magicmoe

America will lose a war against the Taliban Rebels
There is no way they can win

Mamabudz

Mo:

Your points were valid, logical and reasonable up to that point. But I must disagree with your final post:

America has already won the war against the Taliban rebels -- They are dead. We are alive. We Win.

My prayers now are that the Taliban Officials and Islamic Clerics who are meeting today in Khandar have the wisdom to comprehend what they have been called on to do, must do, and how they must act and what must occur for there to possibly be peace in the region and as little mayhem horror and death as possible.

The remainder of the networks will be smoked out during coming weeks and months. It has already begun if you have not yet heard the news.

I choose to keep my faith in G_d and in the Victory of the United States of America.

Mama Budz
* I Toke & I Vote*

Niteshift

"yes, but they are not fully behind you."

What? What kind of sense is that? If they give us assistance when we ask, they're behind us. You can play this Bill Clinton "define fully" game all you want, it still makes no sense.

"poverty is just one of the reasons theey do that."

Ok, SHOW me any writings from the Bin Laden organization that talk about poverty being a motivator. For each one, I will show you one that says their hatred of Jews is the motivator. IF you can even show me any, I will bet which of us runs out first.

IT'S NOT ABOUT POVERTY! Prove me wrong.

"read my post again
I said maybe you are special and you are not like them!!!!! "

You read your post again. You said "Sorry but they are". You added the other on after that.

"If US is gonna do it the american way, yes. Not Everyone but many people. "

The US military has a history of risking the lives of its soldiers in attempts to do as little samage as possible to uninvolved parties. We die trying to do the right thing.

"But I see difficulties in getting those terrorists"

So do I. But just because there are difficulties, we shouldn't throw up our hands and hide.

"send a special force to Afghansitan and kill him(Laden)
that might sound stupid but the only way i see."

It's not stupid, just short sighted. Just killing him won't destroy his organization. Hurt it? Yes. End it? No.

__________________
A burning desire for social justice is never a substitute for knowing what you're talking about. -Thomas Sowell

Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is muzzle flash.

 

magicmoe

"What? What kind of sense is that? If they give us assistance when we ask, they're behind us. You can play this Bill Clinton "define fully" game all you want, it still makes no sense. "

German people are not excited about war, in the past they always complained about german soldiers going to Kosovo or other regions. Politicians are not sure if war will do it.
And they have to help you because they are in the NATO. They will help you, but they will not go with the US to die in 1000 if thats would be necesary. 37% of Germans are for War, the rest is totally against it.

"IT'S NOT ABOUT POVERTY! Prove me wrong. "

Its about Religion and Misery, what Im saying is that people dont go killing themself just like that.

"For each one, I will show you one that says their hatred of Jews is the motivator"

True! But why do they hate Jews? Because the Israelis took them their land and started war over 40 years ago. Now they live in Misery(poverty).

"You read your post again. You said "Sorry but they are". You added the other on after that. "

Yes I did, so whats wrong with excluding you after that sentence?

"So do I. But just because there are difficulties, we shouldn't throw up our hands and hide. "

I just think its War America cant win, even if you kill all who are responsible for the WTC.

Niteshift

"And they have to help you because they are in the NATO. "

That's all I care about.

"37% of Germans are for War, the rest is totally against it."

Fortunately, it won't be put to a vote among the people. Their duly elected govt. will decide.

"Its about Religion and Misery, what Im saying is that people dont go killing themself just like that."

Religion is historically one of the biggest causes of wars. Since the beginning of history, people have killed others and died themselves over religious beliefs.

"Because the Israelis took them their land and started war over 40 years ago. Now they live in Misery(poverty)."

Israel occupies what was Palestine. Bin Laden is a Saudi. His land wasn't taken. Most of these people being identified are not Palestinian. There goes that theory.

It's not about the land the Jews took, it's about the religious difference. You and I can go back and forth all day, but at the end of the day, I'll still be right. You really need to read more on the subject.

"I just think its War America cant win, even if you kill all who are responsible for the WTC."

I see it as more workable than just killing Osama Bin Laden and calling it a day.

Oh, before I finish this, I will give you credit on one.......... France is pulling the same act they always have in the past and saying they on't want to help. That's fine with me, the French military never was much help. We'll do just fine without a country that sells arms to both sides.

HappyMan

THis war is a war or defence. Those who attacked us have decleared war already and have been fighting it for years. It is the right of every country and every person to defend themselves. The time for friendly and peaceful wishfull thining is over, and the U.S. most take action. Although a ground war in Afganhistan would be foolish the U.S. should wage total war on the Talban is they don't coporate. That government is not strong and a hard push could topple it. If I were in charge I would hit them with air strikes, B-1s, B-52's carpet bombing and give unlimited support to the Northen Alliance......An Invasion would be terrible, the Afganhistan is to far away, to mountinous and surounding my country's we can't trust. Even Using ports in Pakistan out forces would have a long war to travel, over hostile land, to travel. The Logistic would be stretched to thin....terrible and scary.

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single_skin

"Israel occupies what was Palestine. Bin Laden is a Saudi. His land wasn't taken. Most of these people being identified are not Palestinian. There goes that theory."

Bin Ladens grudge with USA has to do mainly with USA's military bases in Saudi.

During the Gulf war, Saudi Arabia permitted USA to set up bases. They're still there now.

Bin Laden fell out with the Saudi government and lost his citizenship and was stripped of assets. He managed to get a small fortune out though.

Much of the terrorist organisations are very closely linked. Even the Tsetchens and Bin Laden are cooperating. Financial backing from various organised crime, i.e. drug trade, human flesh trade.

The terrorist control, i.e. Criminal Investigaion Agencies are NOT
Of course the Western society thanks its current living standards to the availability of oil and oil derived by-products, plastics etc. Without a USA to police the Middle East, this would not be guaranteed. USA could pull out of the Middle East completely and the terrorist threat would be over. Even if they were to leave Israel to do what they wanted , as long as USA had no additional presence in the Middle East, they would most likely be left in peace.

I dont see the current terrorist activities in USA to have ANYTHING to do with religion. Its MONEY, not Bin Ladens money, but OURS !

HappyMan

Peace in the middle east? What about Isreal's wars? The Iran/Iraq war, the civil war in Yemen, Iraq/turkey bodern conflicts, the invasion of Kuwait, the Tanker war. No the middle east is not a peaceful place.