eco man

GOP removes TV cameras at civil liberties hearing.

Please distribute this. It is already being covered up, especially info on the warrantless Internet surveillance.

After Republican (GOP) Attorney General Ashcroft finished making his case for restricting people's first amendment rights, privacy rights, and other civil liberties, the committee's Republican staff prove his point by illegally removing the TV cameras and our first amendment rights. Truth is stranger than fiction.

Here are some quotes from the MSNBC article farther down. Don't forget to check out the related drug war and death squad links at the end.

" ... access to users’ Internet information [URLs visited, email subjects and addresses] without a court order ..."

"After Ashcroft finished speaking, committee Democrats called civil liberties and free-speech advocates to testify, including representatives of the American Civil Liberties Union and People for the American Way, which have echoed some of Conyers’ concerns."

"But while Ashcroft’s testimony was open to television cameras, the committee’s Republican staff ordered camera crews to leave, including those of C-SPAN, the public interest network available on cable television systems nationwide, NBC News’ Mike Viqueira reported."

"House rules state, “Whenever a hearing or meeting conducted by a committee or subcommittee is open to the public, those proceedings shall be open to coverage by audio and visual means,” Viqueira reported."

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MSNBC article:

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Ashcroft seeks sweeping powers. September 24, 2001. MSNBC no longer has this article at the original URL below, nor anywhere on its website, it seems. It seems MSNBC, being corporate and rightwing, has already covered this up. Later articles are not mentioning, or are not clearly mentioning, the warrantless Internet surveillance either.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/632335.asp

Police measures needed to stop more attacks,
he testifies

[photo]
Massachusetts state troopers armed with automatic weapons patrolled the terminal at Logan International Airport last week in Boston.

NBC, MSNBC AND NEWS SERVICES

WASHINGTON, Sept. 24 — The United States will remain vulnerable to terrorist attacks unless law enforcement agencies are given a wide range of new counterterrorism tools, including improved wiretap capabilities and easier access to voice mail and Internet users’ personal information, Attorney General John Ashcroft told lawmakers Monday.

The committee’s Republican staff ordered cameras out of the hearing room when representatives of civil liberties and free-speech groups were called to testify.

ASHCROFT ISSUED his warning in testifying before the House Judiciary Committee in favor of far-reaching measures to ramp up the war on terrorism, telling lawmakers, “Every day that passes with outdated statutes and the old rules of engagement is a day that terrorists have a competitive advantage.”

Ashcroft urged quick passage of new police powers sought by the Bush administration, including the authority to detain aliens suspected of ties to terrorists indefinitely and without the right to appeal. The administration also wants wiretap evidence obtained in other countries in violation of the Fourth Amendment to be admissible in court.

In addition, the administration is asking for secret court authorization for wiretaps, longer jail terms for terrorists, access to users’ Internet information without a court order and authority to review telephone voice-mail messages with only a search warrant.

Some of the measures raised red flags for Democrats and advocates of civil liberties. Rep. John Conyers of Michigan, the committee’s ranking Democrat, said he and others were “deeply troubled” by the constitutional implications.

“Past experience has taught us that today’s weapon against terrorism may be tomorrow’s law against law-abiding Americans,” Conyers said.

Ashcroft said he was sure the bill would pass constitutional muster. “We are conducting this effort with a total commitment to protect the rights and privacy of all Americans and the constitutional protections we hold dear,” he said.
WashPost: FBI ill-equipped to stop terror

COVERAGE OF HEARING RESTRICTED

After Ashcroft finished speaking, committee Democrats called civil liberties and free-speech advocates to testify, including representatives of the American Civil Liberties Union and People for the American Way, which have echoed some of Conyers’ concerns.

But while Ashcroft’s testimony was open to television cameras, the committee’s Republican staff ordered camera crews to leave, including those of C-SPAN, the public interest network available on cable television systems nationwide, NBC News’ Mike Viqueira reported.

Print reporters and members of the general public were allowed to remain, meaning the speakers’ comments could be reported, but none of them would be available for Americans to see or hear for themselves.

House rules state, “Whenever a hearing or meeting conducted by a committee or subcommittee is open to the public, those proceedings shall be open to coverage by audio and visual means,” Viqueira reported.

CONGRESS SLOWS DEBATE

Both Democrats and Republicans said the issues were too important to rush the legislation. The Judiciary Committee had planned to vote on the legislation Tuesday, but Chairman James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., said it would take up the bill late next week to give it time to work out concerns like those Conyers raised.

Ashcroft urged speed, however.

“I cannot say to you if we had enacted these in August, we would have curtailed the activities in September, nor can I assure this committee that we won’t have terrorist acts in the future,” he said. “But the mere fact that we can’t do everything shouldn’t keep us from doing what we can do.”

Domestic security is among the top issues that have leaped to the head of a slimmed-down congressional agenda in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on New York and Washington.

“At the moment, nothing is going to get done except to try to deal with the terrorist threat and try to be supportive of the administration that’s planning this big action,” Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., told reporters.

Senate Minority Whip Don Nickles, R-Okla., said other issues, among them Medicare and Social Security reform and President Bush’s plan to channel more funds to religious charities, would have to wait.

“Those other things can be addressed in the future when we’re not fighting both a recession and war on terrorism,” Nickles said.

--end of MSNBC article on hearings--

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*9-2001. Privacy restricted severely. Possible U.S. Laws. COINTELPRO again. Please distribute this. "the FBI, the BATF, the DEA, the INS, or any other federal law enforcement agency could - without a search warrant - survey a citizen's e-mail and his web-surfing. The web surveillance can include every URL which the person visits, and also includes (by virtue of including URLs created by search engines) the key words of every search the person submits. The e-mail surveillance would not include the text of messages, but would include the to/from information, as well as the subject line of a message, and also the size of the message. ... allowing the use in federal courts of surveillance illegally conducted by foreign governments. (Section 105.) The foreign governments would even be protected by the secrecy rules which apply to confidential informants. What this does is set up a system whereby a foreign government can violate American laws by wiretapping Americans, while the American government can violate foreign laws by wiretapping foreigners, and then both governments collude to share their fruits of their joint violations of their nations' privacy laws." The method explained in the last quote above is similar to how the US has already used its death squad friends abroad. The USA has shared information, misinformation, lists of names, etc.. This has resulted in people of many nations being brutally questioned, imprisoned, tortured, disappeared, and killed abroad, even Americans, without directly implicating the USA.
http://sf.indymedia.org/display.php?id=104729 and
http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/message.shtml?1x38376

*Death Squads, Drug War. LINKS worldwide. Revised. Millions killed over decades. Huge LINKS list. Lists in alphabetical and chronological order. Other death squads, too. Such as the US-run Phoenix Program during the Vietnam war. Many other US-run or US-aided death squads worldwide. Corruption at all levels of politics, police, society, government, etc..
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/squads.htm and
http://drugwar.8m.com/squads.htm

*The MAJORITY of the 2 million U.S. inmates are incarcerated due to the drug war! The Drug-War Industrial Complex. The U.S. drug-war inmate MAJORITY is calculated by adding together inmates committing drug crimes, drug-related crimes (such as robbing to get money for drugs that are expensive because of the drug war), drug-related parole violations, etc.. The USA has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's 8 MILLION prisoners. The USA surpassed Russia in the year 2000, and so the USA again has the world's highest incarceration rate! It is now 5 to 17 times higher than all other Western (long democratic traditions) nations. The US incarceration rate has nearly QUADRUPLED since Reagan's election in 1980. 6.5 million adults, or 1 in 32 adults in the USA, or 3.1% of adults, were under correctional supervision (in jail, in prison, on probation, or on parole) at yearend 2000. Statistics, references, links, and charts:
http://drugwar.8m.com/majority.htm and
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/majority.htm and
http://members.fortunecity.com/multi19/majority.htm

Panama

If all you're going to do is copy and paste then use the Submit News link.

__________________
"This fight against the War on Drugs is not a war in the classic sense of the word, so it's virtually impossible to point to one instance and say, 'That was the battle that stemmed the tide in our favor'. We have had many small victories that have led us to where we are and each day we continue to communicate and educate brings us that much closer to our ultimate goal: The end of marijuana prohibition." -Richard "Panama" Red-
Marijuana.Com Posting Guideline

eco man

Panama. You said:

Thanks for the Submit News link. I may use it in the future. I checked out the link. It seems that the MSNBC article no longer qualifies for use here as News because it seems MSNBC has since hidden or deleted the article off their website. So Marijuana.com would not be able to verify the article as being from MSNBC, though I copied it from there.

I beg to differ with your characterization of my message. It is much more than just a copy and paste. It is a compilation of information from several articles, plus several of my web pages. I don't want to get into an argument with you because others say this will cause you to delete all my messages and to ban me from all the CheapTalk forums. I have already been blocked from nearly all the forums except this one. No moderator has ever explained why, nor responded to my email.

I rarely post at CheapTalk, so I don't understand the banning and deletion. There is a lot of talk about all this at the MAP/DrugNews message board. You might want to reply to people's accusations there.

Panama

"There is a lot of talk about all this at the MAP/DrugNews message board. You might want to reply to people's accusations there."

I don't respond to trolls. The 3 people doing all the complaining there know why they were banned, so defending myself and this site makes no sense.

"I rarely post at CheapTalk, so I don't understand the banning and deletion."

We went through this when you posted under the name "Tom Paine". CheapTalk is a discussion board not some place for you to post everything you receive in your E-mail. If you post a thread for discussion and contribute to it that's fine, but everytime you post something that's off topic for these discussion boards it will be deleted.

As it is now you have posting privledges in Current Affairs and Kewl Links as well as the forums in the Web Site Feedback section. These forums are the only ones where anything you've posted in recent history would fit a forum description.

You're more than welcome to complain about your posting privledges, but do it in the appropriate forum. (Marijuana.Com)

eco man

I am now contributing to discussion of the original focus of this thread.

All other issues mentioned by Panama are being discussed in the Marijuana.com forum as instructed to do so by Panama.

The original message in this thread is being discussed in several places. I suggest people go to some of those places, read the discussions, and come back here with your comments. I will discuss your comments - as I always try to do at any place I post stuff. Here are some of the other message locations:

The message is at San Francisco Indymedia at:
http://sf.indymedia.org/display.php?id=104818

It is at Compassionate Moms (a drug war and medical marijuana Yahoo Group) at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/compas...s/message/3227

It is at a Cannabis Culture forum message at:
http://www.cannabisculture.com/cgi/w...sb=5&o=&fpart=