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Higher Logic · 12-14-2005, 06:02 PM

Bush Takes Responsibility For Invasion Intelligence
President Says Removing Hussein Still "Right Decision"

On the eve of Iraq's historic election, President Bush took responsibility Wednesday for "wrong" intelligence that led to the war, but he said removing Saddam Hussein was still necessary.

HL: And there you have it folks! What have I been saying all along, that the intelligence leading us to war with Iraq was wrong. Finally this man comes out with the truth, for once. He should make a habit of this.

"It is true that much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong," Bush said during his fourth and final speech before Thursday's vote for Iraq's parliament. "As president I am responsible for the decision to go into Iraq. And I'm also responsible for fixing what went wrong by reforming our intelligence capabilities. And we're doing just that."

HL: I'm glad the President knows what his job is supposed to be, I mean, even a child knows that the President is supposed to be responsible for decisions like this. Before I get too excited, my take on this little "admittance" is more like a cop-out. He pulled the same stunt with Katrina where he said "I am responsible for the problem and for the solution." He's only feigning his accountability. It's vintage Bush. In his typical fashion, he held no one accountable.

"My decision to remove Saddam Hussein was the right decision," the president said. "Saddam was a threat and the American people, and the world is better off because he is no longer in power."

HL: Back to that whole humanity bit again. Never gets old I tell ya. Wait, if the intelligence was wrong, and he wasn't a threat, then...me so confused.

Bush spoke at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington.

Meanwhile, 48 percent of respondents to a new CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll said they thought it was a mistake to send U.S. troops to Iraq, as opposed to 54 percent of those polled last month. The margin of error was plus or minus 3 percent. Fifty percent said it was not a mistake, compared to 45 percent last month. The president's approval rating is 42 percent—up 4 percent from November.

A successful election in Iraq on Thursday to establish the nation's first permanent, democratically elected government would do much to bolster the theme of Bush's speeches: that his administration's war is working.

"We are living through a watershed moment in the story of freedom," Bush said. "Iraqis will go to the polls to choose a government that will be the only constitutional democracy in the Arab world. Yet we need to remember that these elections are also a vital part of a broader strategy in protecting the American people against the threat of terrorism."

HL: Did anyone catch the news brief about Cheny's wife going around school's and talking to children about how what's going on in Iraq is the same as the American Revolution? What a load of...

Before the speech, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, said 41 Democratic senators had sent a letter to Bush "to show that we need to get things right in Iraq after these elections."

"The president has had a number of speeches—three in number—and he has still not focused on what needs to be done in convincing the American people and showing the American people what his plan is in Iraq," Reid said.

Sen. Jack Reed, D-Rhode Island, said the letter urges the Bush administration "to tell the leaders of all groups and political parties in Iraq that they need to make the compromises necessary to achieve the broad-based and sustainable political settlement that is necessary for defeating the insurgency."

"The president still has not stated how long his administration believes the (war) will take and how much it will cost in terms of funding and in terms of the commitment of American military and civilian personnel," Reed said.

In the poll, 49 percent of respondents said neither side is winning the war, 13 percent said the insurgents are winning and 36 percent said the United States is winning.

On Monday, speaking in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the cradle of the U.S. Constitution, Bush compared Iraq's struggles with American history.

"It took a four-year civil war and a century of struggle after that before the promise of our Declaration (of Independence) was extended to all Americans," Bush said. "It is important to keep this history in mind as we look at the progress of freedom and democracy in Iraq."

HL: When I write these comments I don't read the article first, I go as I read. I was just talking about Cheney's wife going around and spreading this, well, propaganda, and it seems Bush likes the idea as well. There is no comparing the two.

The president unexpectedly took questions from the audience, including one from a woman who asked Bush how many Iraqi "civilians, military, police, insurgents, translators" had been killed in the war.

"I would say 30,000, more or less, have died as a result of the initial incursion and the ongoing violence against Iraqis," Bush said. "We've lost about 2,140 of our own troops in Iraq."

HL: Actually it's 2,150. But what's 10 in a sea of thousands?

White House spokesman Scott McClellan later said Bush was basing his statement on media reports, "not an official government estimate."

About 160,000 American troops are in Iraq. The Pentagon says it hopes to reduce the number to 138,000 by the summer and 100,000 by the end of 2006.

During his speech December 7, Bush said the United States has succeeded in helping Iraq improve its economy and infrastructure—which he called the "battle after the battle."

"Over the course of this war, we have learned that winning the battle for Iraqi cities is only the first step," Bush said. "We also have to win the battle after the battle by helping Iraqis consolidate their gains and keep the terrorists from returning."

HL: He means Iraq is the first country, there are still others left. Right?

And during his first speech of the series, on November 30, Bush told students at the U.S. Naval Academy, "As Iraqi forces gain experience and the political process advances, we will be able to decrease our troop level in Iraq without losing our capability to defeat the terrorists."

Higher Logic · 12-14-2005, 06:15 PM

Let me take you back to April 1, 2005, for a second...read this article about a panel saying the intelligence in Iraq was "dead wrong."

PotShot · 12-14-2005, 06:42 PM

Quote:

"My decision to remove Saddam Hussein was the right decision," the president said. "Saddam was a threat and the American people, and the world is better off because he is no longer in power."

Sound familier....?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Animal Farm

"Bravery is not enough," said Squealer. "Loyalty and obedience are more important. And as to the Battle of the Cowshed, I believe the time will come when we shall find that Snowball's part in it was much exaggerated. Discipline, comrades, iron discipline! That is the watchword for today. One false step, and our enemies would be upon us. Surely, comrades, you do not want Jones back?"

Once again this argument was unanswerable. Certainly the animals did not want Jones back; if the holding of debates on Sunday mornings was liable to bring him back, then the debates must stop.

Surely, fellow citizens, you do not want Saddam back?

HappyMan · 12-14-2005, 08:21 PM

I think you are taking the quotes out of context. One is a statement the other is a question.

Buzzby · 12-14-2005, 08:56 PM

Quote:

"It took a four-year civil war and a century of struggle after that before the promise of our Declaration (of Independence) was extended to all Americans," Bush said. "It is important to keep this history in mind as we look at the progress of freedom and democracy in Iraq."

Perhaps we should get out of the way and allow Iraq to have its (inevitable) four-year civil war and one hundred years of struggle for freedom. In one hundred years they might actually be ready for democracy and able to get past their religious, ethnic, and tribal divisions.

PotShot · 12-14-2005, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyMan

I think you are taking the quotes out of context. One is a statement the other is a question.

Agreed.

Please allow me to correct myself. In this situation, as in the past, whenever the logic for the war was called into question, proponents of the war would ask the questioner if the world "was a better place" with Saddam gone.

This seems absurd to me, and reminds me of Animal Farm and Squealer. Except in reality Sean Hannity plays that part.

ChronicSmoke7 · 12-14-2005, 09:16 PM

yes, this is the hundred year war,never ending war, which was the plan the whole time. ANimal farm and 1984 are easily written before their "time" because we've been following CFR foreign policy ever since it was created in the 40s.

HappyMan · 12-14-2005, 09:36 PM

Orwell was writing about the rise of Stalinist Communism.

ChronicSmoke7 · 12-14-2005, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyMan

Orwell was writing about the rise of Stalinist Communism.

sure he was!

There just happend to communist members in CFR when it was created, some of them were target in the red scare or whatever by the commie buster guy.

Higher Logic · 12-14-2005, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyMan

Orwell was writing about the rise of Stalinist Communism.

And Mark Twain was just writing about a boy and his adventures...yet, so much more can be taken from the book. 1984 had a lot to do with linguistic determinism and relativity, e.g. if you can't form the words to express a revolution, you cannot revolt. It had a lot to do with the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. There's more to a book than what you get at face value.

12-14-2005, 06:02 PM	#1
Higher Logic Web Developer Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,123 Grams: 5,501.58 Groans: 3 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 2 Thanked 57 Times in 33 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Oh My God: Hell Just Froze Over! Bush Takes Responsibility For Invasion Intelligence President Says Removing Hussein Still "Right Decision" On the eve of Iraq's historic election, President Bush took responsibility Wednesday for "wrong" intelligence that led to the war, but he said removing Saddam Hussein was still necessary. HL: And there you have it folks! What have I been saying all along, that the intelligence leading us to war with Iraq was wrong. Finally this man comes out with the truth, for once. He should make a habit of this. "It is true that much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong," Bush said during his fourth and final speech before Thursday's vote for Iraq's parliament. "As president I am responsible for the decision to go into Iraq. And I'm also responsible for fixing what went wrong by reforming our intelligence capabilities. And we're doing just that." HL: I'm glad the President knows what his job is supposed to be, I mean, even a child knows that the President is supposed to be responsible for decisions like this. Before I get too excited, my take on this little "admittance" is more like a cop-out. He pulled the same stunt with Katrina where he said "I am responsible for the problem and for the solution." He's only feigning his accountability. It's vintage Bush. In his typical fashion, he held no one accountable. "My decision to remove Saddam Hussein was the right decision," the president said. "Saddam was a threat and the American people, and the world is better off because he is no longer in power." HL: Back to that whole humanity bit again. Never gets old I tell ya. Wait, if the intelligence was wrong, and he wasn't a threat, then...me so confused. Bush spoke at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington. Meanwhile, 48 percent of respondents to a new CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll said they thought it was a mistake to send U.S. troops to Iraq, as opposed to 54 percent of those polled last month. The margin of error was plus or minus 3 percent. Fifty percent said it was not a mistake, compared to 45 percent last month. The president's approval rating is 42 percent—up 4 percent from November. A successful election in Iraq on Thursday to establish the nation's first permanent, democratically elected government would do much to bolster the theme of Bush's speeches: that his administration's war is working. "We are living through a watershed moment in the story of freedom," Bush said. "Iraqis will go to the polls to choose a government that will be the only constitutional democracy in the Arab world. Yet we need to remember that these elections are also a vital part of a broader strategy in protecting the American people against the threat of terrorism." HL: Did anyone catch the news brief about Cheny's wife going around school's and talking to children about how what's going on in Iraq is the same as the American Revolution? What a load of... Before the speech, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, said 41 Democratic senators had sent a letter to Bush "to show that we need to get things right in Iraq after these elections." "The president has had a number of speeches—three in number—and he has still not focused on what needs to be done in convincing the American people and showing the American people what his plan is in Iraq," Reid said. Sen. Jack Reed, D-Rhode Island, said the letter urges the Bush administration "to tell the leaders of all groups and political parties in Iraq that they need to make the compromises necessary to achieve the broad-based and sustainable political settlement that is necessary for defeating the insurgency." "The president still has not stated how long his administration believes the (war) will take and how much it will cost in terms of funding and in terms of the commitment of American military and civilian personnel," Reed said. In the poll, 49 percent of respondents said neither side is winning the war, 13 percent said the insurgents are winning and 36 percent said the United States is winning. On Monday, speaking in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the cradle of the U.S. Constitution, Bush compared Iraq's struggles with American history. "It took a four-year civil war and a century of struggle after that before the promise of our Declaration (of Independence) was extended to all Americans," Bush said. "It is important to keep this history in mind as we look at the progress of freedom and democracy in Iraq." HL: When I write these comments I don't read the article first, I go as I read. I was just talking about Cheney's wife going around and spreading this, well, propaganda, and it seems Bush likes the idea as well. There is no comparing the two. The president unexpectedly took questions from the audience, including one from a woman who asked Bush how many Iraqi "civilians, military, police, insurgents, translators" had been killed in the war. "I would say 30,000, more or less, have died as a result of the initial incursion and the ongoing violence against Iraqis," Bush said. "We've lost about 2,140 of our own troops in Iraq." HL: Actually it's 2,150. But what's 10 in a sea of thousands? White House spokesman Scott McClellan later said Bush was basing his statement on media reports, "not an official government estimate." About 160,000 American troops are in Iraq. The Pentagon says it hopes to reduce the number to 138,000 by the summer and 100,000 by the end of 2006. During his speech December 7, Bush said the United States has succeeded in helping Iraq improve its economy and infrastructure—which he called the "battle after the battle." "Over the course of this war, we have learned that winning the battle for Iraqi cities is only the first step," Bush said. "We also have to win the battle after the battle by helping Iraqis consolidate their gains and keep the terrorists from returning." HL: He means Iraq is the first country, there are still others left. Right? And during his first speech of the series, on November 30, Bush told students at the U.S. Naval Academy, "As Iraqi forces gain experience and the political process advances, we will be able to decrease our troop level in Iraq without losing our capability to defeat the terrorists." __________________ Crucial Web Hosting · Garden's Cure · Marijuana Recipes · Drug Testing Facts Dilution · Substitution · Urine Testing · Hair Testing · Drug Testing FAQ

12-14-2005, 08:21 PM	#4
HappyMan Jr. Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 4,224 Grams: 1,544.02 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	I think you are taking the quotes out of context. One is a statement the other is a question. __________________ Bla. and Marijuana.Com Community Posting Guidelines

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12-14-2005, 06:15 PM	#2
Higher Logic Web Developer Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,123 Grams: 5,501.58 Groans: 3 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 2 Thanked 57 Times in 33 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Let me take you back to April 1, 2005, for a second...read this article about a panel saying the intelligence in Iraq was "dead wrong."

12-14-2005, 09:16 PM	#7
ChronicSmoke7 Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 564 Grams: 2,386.50 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	yes, this is the hundred year war,never ending war, which was the plan the whole time. ANimal farm and 1984 are easily written before their "time" because we've been following CFR foreign policy ever since it was created in the 40s.

12-14-2005, 09:36 PM	#8
HappyMan Jr. Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 4,224 Grams: 1,544.02 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Orwell was writing about the rise of Stalinist Communism.

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