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Old 12-22-2005, 06:10 AM   #1
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Default Wartime Powers in an endless state of war?

This is an insightful and thought provoking question, and one that I'd be intrested in hearing some feedback about..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Washington Monthly
WARTIME....Do President Bush's inherent constitutional powers as commander-in-chief give him the authority to override federal law and approve domestic spying by the NSA? That's certainly the justification he provided at Monday's press conference:

Do I have the legal authority to do this? And the answer is, absolutely. As I mentioned in my remarks, the legal authority is derived from the Constitution, as well as the authorization of force by the United States Congress.

Bill Kristol and Gary Schmitt support this assessment in the Washington Post today, and they've been joined by a small army of other commentators.

Of course, their argument is not that the president has the inherent power to authorize domestic surveillance anytime he wants, only that he has that power during wartime. And as near as I can tell, that's the elephant in the room that no one is really very anxious to discuss: What is "wartime"? Is George Bush really a "wartime president," as he's so fond of calling himself? Conservatives take it for granted that he is, while liberals tend to avoid the subject entirely for fear of being thought unserious about the War on Terror. But it's something that ought be brought up and discussed openly.

Consider a different war, for example. It's safe to say that whatever Bush's NSA program actually involves, no one would have batted an eyelash if FDR had approved a similar program during World War II. Experience suggests that during a period of genuine, all-out war, few people complain when a president pushes the boundaries of the law based on military necessity. But aside from World War II, what else counts as wartime?

If you count only serious hot wars, the United States has been at war for over 20 of the 65 years since 1940. That's a lot of "wartime."

However, if you count the Cold War, as conservatives generally think we should, the tally shoots up to about 50 years of war. That means the United States has been almost continuously at war during the past 65 years — and given the nature of the War on Terror, we'll continue to be at war for the next several decades.

If this is how we define "wartime," it means that in the century from 1940 to 2040 the president will have had emergency wartime powers for virtually the entire time. But does that make sense? Is anyone really comfortable with the idea that three decades from now the president of the United States will have had wartime executive powers for nearly a continuous century?

Somehow we need to come to grips with this. There's "wartime" and then there's "wartime," and not all armed conflicts vest the president with emergency powers. George Bush may have the best intentions in the world — and in this case he probably did have the best intentions in the world — but that still doesn't mean he has the kind of plenary power Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt exercised during their wars.
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Old 12-22-2005, 03:19 PM   #2
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I'd contend that one of the reasons GWB started this war in Iraq was to maintain the illusion that he's a "wartime president". Incumbent presidents have a hard time getting voted out of office in wartime. In time of war, people elect conservative governments because they believe that they will protect them more than liberal governments.

If we're going to be "at war" until terrorism "surrenders" or all the terrorists are dead, we will be in a permanent state of war.
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Old 12-22-2005, 03:29 PM   #3
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And if they add the "War on Drugs" to the "War on Terror" we are fighting a two front war. Our enemies are coming together in the form of Narco Terrorism. This is a HUGE threat to our way of life, our standard of living, our childrens future. We MUST come together and sacrifice our freedoms for our childrens lives. The terrorists are selling drugs (cocaine, heroin, and MARIJUANA) to fund their plans for destruction. I know it will be hard for us all but some things are worth the effort.
During the dark days of WW2, we had to do without so our troops could be properly taken care of. Now this may be hard for those that use marijuana for medicinal reasons but if you are using marijuana YOU could very well be supporting a terror cell inside this country. PLEASE, talk to your doctor and have him give you something else to ease your pain. Your use of marijuana during this time of war could be causing the pain of untold others as a result of a drug sponsored terrorist attack.
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Old 12-22-2005, 03:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
The terrorists are selling drugs (cocaine, heroin, and MARIJUANA) to fund their plans for destruction.
Bull****. Prove it. Where is your proof that terrorists are selling marijuana as a fund-raising activity inside US borders? Where is your proof that the marijuana I buy from my local dealer, originated from a terrorist grow-op? I call bull****. I think you just got the idea in your head because you bought into the ONDCP's television ads following 9/11.

Quote:
If we're going to be "at war" until terrorism "surrenders" or all the terrorists are dead, we will be in a permanent state of war.
1984 anyone?
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Old 12-22-2005, 04:27 PM   #5
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I think that if you reviewd some of KIller's other threads, you would realize that his post is fecetious and contrary to his authentic veiws.
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Old 12-22-2005, 04:40 PM   #6
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It is true that opium crop production is one of the highest yet in Afghanistan.
Most American weed is homegrown or produced in the U.S., possibly canada or mexico, but most of the terrorist countries in S. America coca plants, switched to more profitable product, cocaine.
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Old 12-22-2005, 05:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
I think that if you reviewd some of KIller's other threads, you would realize that his post is fecetious and contrary to his authentic veiws.
Yes, but the probably with making a facetious or sarcastic post in a written medium without giving any direct indication (including emoticons) of it is that people will take it seriously.

Quotes from the reefer madness era are something we would say today derisively, but if you don't give any indication of your derision then it sounds just like reefer madness... and reefer madness is something that a lot of people bought into. On an issue with as much propaganda, half-truths, and bald-faced lies as the marijuana issue has, I think it's very dangerous to say things mockingly without indicating you are mocking them.
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Old 12-22-2005, 09:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S2
I think that if you reviewd some of KIller's other threads, you would realize that his post is fecetious and contrary to his authentic veiws.
Killer will say anything to get a rise out of someone. Maybe if we all stopped playing his game he might contribute something useful?

S2 - you've invented an excellent new word "fecetious", a blending of the words "feces" and "facetious". It would be a more erudite synonym for "bullsh*t". Killer's post is definitely fecetious.
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Old 12-23-2005, 03:29 AM   #9
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ROFL, I thought of that instantly as well when I corrected him. I just didn't want to call the Killer's post "fecetious" because it was insulting =P. So that means "fecetiousness" would be a synonym for the S word, right? =)

New phrases:

"fecetious-faced"
"beat the living fecetiousness out of him"
"when the fan gets fecetious" (think about that one)
or the all-encompassing adjective: "this class is fecetious (****ty)", "what a fecetious job", "don't get fecetious with me young man!"

ROFL, I'm up too late =P
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Old 12-23-2005, 04:27 AM   #10
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I'm sorry if people took my post in the wrong manner. I was attempting to be sarcastic. I don't believe for a moment that marijuana sales in this or any other country contributes to terrorism. Heroin and cocaine MAYBE so, that could be debatable somewhat. This neverending cold/hot war on terrorism will be one of the true tests of our ability to control our government and our government to control us.
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