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Niteshift

Take heed those of you who say I never disagree with the adminstration, this is one of those time.

WTF is the Pentagon and the Marine Corps thinking with this boondoggle?



WASHINGTON — The Marine Corps is paying $100,000 apiece for a revamped Vietnam-era jeep as part of its program to outfit the hybrid airplane-helicopter V-22 Osprey, Pentagon records show.

That's seven times what a deluxe commercial version of the vehicle costs. It's also three times what U.S. Export-Import Bank records show the Dominican Republic paid four years ago for a military version of the vehicle, called the Growler, a recycled version of the M151 jeep.

The Marines and the contractor, General Dynamics, say the vehicle has been thoroughly revised with modern automotive parts and adapted to fit on the V-22. How appropriate, an over-price, half-azzed jeep to fit on an over-due, unneeded, expensive aircraft.

"Yes, it did start off with jeep technology, and it does look like a jeep in a lot of ways," says John Garner, the Marines project manager. But he says it's now "state of the art."

Danielle Brian, executive director of the Project on Government Oversight, a non-profit group that monitors Pentagon contracts, says taxpayers are getting a deal that "stinks" on an unarmored vehicle that makes no sense for today's missions, where troops face ambushes and roadside bombs.We already have an unarmored vehicle. Plenty of them.

"In a time of war, we should not be wasting money on a junker which will not protect our troops," Brian says. Under current military safety rules, the Growler would be barred from service in Iraq except as a utility vehicle that doesn't leave the security of a base.And we know how important it is to be able to fly vehicles into secured bases one at a time on small aircraft.

The Marines have budgeted to buy more than 400 Growlers, along with a French mortar and ammunition that it would tow, under a contract that could total $296 million.Damn, a French mortar too? We can't buy from a an ally? Well, the dwarf jeep looks like something Renault would make anyway, so I guess it fits.

The Growler beat two other vehicles for the contract, Garner says.

Built by Ocala, Fla.-based American Growler, the original Growler is made partly from salvaged M151 jeep parts and is available in several versions for as little as $7,500 in kit form. At the high end, there's a $14,500 upgraded "tactical dune buggy" with a "bikini top."That's right, they said recycled parts from the vehicle we replaced 20 years ago.

The Marines' version has considerable upgrades from the commercial and Dominican Republic models, the Corps and contractor say, including a turbo-diesel engine, disc brakes and other systems adapted from modern vehicles.Well hell, that makes all the difference in the world. I guess the turbo-diesel is so it can run away fast (that's what a French mortar is designed to do).

"It's not your grandfather's jeep," says Kendell Pease, a General Dynamics spokesman.No, my grandfathers jeep served for decades, enduring everything thrown at it for WAY lass money. My grandfathers wrench probably won't fix it either. This will need some $800 platinum wrench.

The Osprey is a twin-engine airplane that turns its rotors up for vertical takeoff and landing like a helicopter.

Under development since 1986, the V-22 is scheduled to go into service in 2007. It has a history of technical problems and several fatal crashes. Yep. They've been jerking with this thing for 20 years and MIGHT get it into service next year.........just in time to be completely obselete. And now we have a dwarf jeep made out of recycled parts to go on it. Seinfeld couldn't write this stuff.

The Growler is expected to be deployed with the V-22 in 2007, Pease says.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...tm?POE=NEWISVA

Here is a pic of this contraption:

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MrIMStoned

The new 2006 H1 Alpha is only $124, 000. And it would blow the ****in doors off that POS.

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Higher Logic

That looks like one of those Monster Garage inventions. I got it! They should just hire Monster Garage to build for them

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Niteshift

The new 2006 H1 Alpha is only $124, 000. And it would blow the ****in doors off that POS.

Of course the military version is a lot more spartan than that one.

The military procures HMMWV's at approx. $50K each. They have a much bigger tow capacity and are much more versatile.

Of course they won't fit in the V-22, but they can be airlifted by the UH-60 Blackhawk, which we have a ton of, and numerous other helicopters that we already have.

The V-22 should have been killed a long time ago. It is another example of a kind of good idea that didn't work out as well in reality as they thought. But despite cost overruns, delays and technical problems that have led to deaths, the Marine Corps has refused to kill it.

So when it FINALLY gets put into service, you will end up with a small plane that isn't very fast compared to other planes, can't carry a lot and is way over due...........and can't carry stuff we already have, like the HMMWV.

Interestingly, the V-22 was killed by Bush41 and by then Sec. of Defense Dick Cheney. Cheney argued that the Osprey cost too much and wasn't worth it. But congress threatened legal action against Cheney if he killed the project. This was back in 1989.

Cheney finally relented, and authorized money in the 1992-93 budget for testing, but made it clear he opposed the aircraft personally.

The next administration thought this aircraft sounded like a great idea and threw a bunch of money at it. So far 26 marines have died in crashes with prototypes.

killer12382

Get rid of ,what appears to be a gun piece, and that thing looks like a fun little four wheeler.

 

troublemaker_42

LOL....Jesse james could probably do it a lot CHEAPER than what they are paying as well, and the gov't could recoup its losses by selling the show on DVD for 29.95!

Mamabudz

Weren't these just recalled?
Recalled trucks

king cola

"Yep. They've been jerking with this thing for 20 years and MIGHT get it into service next year.........just in time to be completely obselete. And now we have a dwarf jeep made out of recycled parts to go on it. Seinfeld couldn't write this stuff."

If only a comedian took this article and put it to good use. I'm sure jay leno would if someone sent him the article, the address is on the NBC website.

"Danielle Brian, executive director of the Project on Government Oversight, a non-profit group that monitors Pentagon contracts, says taxpayers are getting a deal that "stinks" on an unarmored vehicle that makes no sense for today's missions, where troops face ambushes and roadside bombs."

They could pay $100,000 and get a Hummer H1 covered with armor and everything, not to mention the ones built for the army are bomb proof and can go as deep as 6 feet of water just about having the entire roof covered. I watched the army hummers get tested on tv, even with a grenade the hummer was still intact.

People can get a old willy's jeep online for a lot cheaper and restore it. Even a old CJ isn't that expensive to fix up.

If jesse james from monster garage got a crew together i bet if they worked on that jeep it would look a lot more sick than it looks right now. The corvette mud racer they built was crazy. It had big tires, was all wheel drive, it was really quick too. That's somethin they could have used, they constructed it a lot cheaper than what this project is costing the military.

They should be working forward and not backward. I don't see the point in this project. Can't they just use a jeep wrangler on their army base? At the cost of $17-$25 thousand they could have a few new ones. Atleast those have airbags and are probably a lot more stable.

MrIMStoned

Of course the military version is a lot more spartan than that one.

The military procures HMMWV's at approx. $50K each. They have a much bigger tow capacity and are much more versatile.

hmmwv's are much more versatile? I don't know which model that you are reffering to but if it is the version of hummer with the machine gun on the back that pops into most peoples minds (M998 or M1038) when they hear hummer, than they are almost equal.

The civilian model hummer was the first one to have CTIS (central tire inflation system) and the first to have the 6.5 L diesel engine. The rims that are now wide spread across the civilian and military model were first availible on the 96 civilian model. They are both 15 feet long give or take 4 inches, the military version is a foot wider but get this. The h1 alpha has 525 lb-ft of torque at 3000rpm where the hmmwv has a wimpy 218.83. It could never compare in towing capacity. I couldn't find the specs on the military version but it would have to be more than 10 000 pounds and with 150hp to the 300hp of the h1 alpha and the h1's newest Allison tranny, the hmmwv won't stand up.

I can say that the hmmwv would be more versatile only in the repairing aspect due to its base frame family type construction and it's bullet proof but in comparison to terrain management and towing capacity the civilian model would be a much better hummer. Although it cost twice as much. So I guess you get what you pay for.

I don't mean to argue or anything I just want the h1 alpha to get the repect that it deserves. It is just as spartan as the military version.

Niteshift

hmmwv's are much more versatile?

I should have been more clear. I meant that comment in comparison to this idiotic Growler.

The civilian model hummer was the first one to have CTIS (central tire inflation system)

Wouldn't want the CTIS on a combat vehicle. The KISS principal applies. Military HMMWV's don't even carry spares and they their rims can be used without a tire in the event of a flat.


One thing you failed to take into account when crunching numbers........... the HMMWV is only 5200 lbs compared to 8,114 lbs for the 4 dr H1. I don't know about you, but I find a difference of almost 3,000 lbs significant when you start comparing horsepower and torque.

The military version also lists a payload from 2,200 to 4,400 lbs. depending on configuration. The top of the 4dr H1 is 2186 lbs.

It is just as spartan as the military version.

It's a tough vehicle, no doubt, but I don;t think spartan is the word you want here. Spartan meaning simple or austere. Nothing with leather seats, air conditions, a CD player, power windows and CTIS is going to be considered spartan Hell the military version doesn't even have a window crank. You pull the know out, slide it to the next locking position and there you go.........and that IS your air conditioning. Let's not even talk about the 1/2 inch canvas covered foam "seats" that sit on the metal frame.