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Lothar121

Thoughts? I don't know how familiar everyone is with all the crazy hypotheses out there, but a good starting point I was referred to by a friend from class:

1) Go to http://video.google.com/

2) Type in "loose change"

3) Click the link that is top and one over to your right.

Loose Change 2nd Edition
Korey Rowe / Dylan Avery / Jason Bermas
1 hr 21 min 50 sec - Jan 16, 2006

I haven't seen the other newer version, but this one presents some interesting conjecture. I think that the last part in particular was way over the top, complete speculation with little justification. Nevertheless, some of the points raised rose my eyebrows a few times during the middle 40 minutes of the film, but I am not convinced that 9-11 was some type of U.S. conspiracy with the current information.

Some other interesting links:

Process theologian David Ray Griffin's book The New Pearl Harbor seems to be the most comprehensive book on the subject, but I have already found some rebuttals to some of the assertions in the book. It's nevertheless an interesting subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Pearl_Harbor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

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troublemaker_42

The new issue of Maxim magazine has an article devoted to 9/11 conspiracies in it that I found interesting. By interesting, i don't mean I buy into 99% of the "theories" out there. Its good to question authority, but its not good to become an obessive wacko!

MrIMStoned

I didn't look at your links but the footage that i have seen of the first plane hitting the tower, it is clear that some flash or explosion of some kind happens to the building slightly before the plane hits. If it wasn't doctored footage than you can tell the flash happens before the plane hits because the flash happens 4 frames or so before the shadow of the plane's nose meets the nose of the plane. Plus apparantley this flash happens before each plane hits.

Also the footage of the non trade center building collapsing did not look to me like a building collapsing in a natural fashion.

The most important thing to me that begs conspiracy is that Osama is free. America has the resources to find anyone they please. You can say that this isn't a conspiracy but until I see Osama captured, I can't believe it's the truth.

The erking part are people that cannot be objective. It may not be a conspiracy but its far from the truth. It is not "nuts" to believe that powerful people will do anything they think they can get away with for money. Sure speculation isn't anything to base an opinion on but there aren't any explinations for these things coming from the administration so I guess all you have left is speculation.

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Higher Logic

I just watched the video. I highly reccommend that you watch it. It's well worth the hour. And if you don't want to watch the low-quality one on Google video, download it via torrent file or a P2P program.

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HappyMan

How are building supposed to collapse?

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Higher Logic

Natural or man-made is what I think he means.

MrIMStoned

I don't know. I just think it looks odd. I guess I haven't seen alot of buildings fall down to be a good judge of it.

Buzzby

There was a program on one of the cable channels (History Channel? Science Channel?) about the mechanics of the building collapses. Several engineers explained how burning jet fuel caused support beams to soften, bend, and eventually collapse under their load.

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Higher Logic

If that's the case, then it's the first building—I guess second or third, depending on which building you are talking about—in history that has collapsed because of a fire.

July 28, 1945 - A B-25 bomber crashes into the 79th floor of the Empire State Building. The building didn't collapse.

February 14, 1975 - The 9th and 14th floor of the North Tower breaks out in a fire. The building didn't collapse.

May 4, 1988 - A 62 story skyscraper in Los Angeles burns for 3 hours, spreading over four floors. The building didn't collapse.

February 23, 1991 - A 38 story skyscraper in Philadelphia that was built in 1973, burned for more than 19 hours and spread over 8 floors. The building didn't collapse.

October 17, 2004 - A 56 story skyscraper in Venezula that was built in 1976, burned for over 17 hours, spreading over 26 floors including the roof. The building didn't collapse.

February 12, 2005 - The Windsor building in Madrid—a 32 story tower framed in steel reinforced concrete—burned for almost 24 hours, completely eradicating the upper 10 floors of the building. The building didn't collapse.

September 11, 2001 - Two 110 story skyscrapers that were built in 1973 burned for 56 and 103 minutes respectively, spreading over 4 floors. The buildings did collapse.

The Twin Towers were composed of 200,000 tons of steel, 425,000 cubic yards of concrete, 103 elevators, 43,600 windows, and 60,000 tons of cooling equipment. The core of each building was 87 by 133 feet, comprised of 37 box columns that were 36 by 16 inches thick.

And you want to tell me that 10,000 gallons of jet fuel made the towers fall? Watch the video of the second tower getting hit. A majority of the jet fuel is burned outside of the building.

Not to mention that Hyman Brown, the World Trade Center Construction Manager, said that the buildings were designed to withstand almost anything, including "hurricanes, high winds, bombings, and an airplane hitting it.

The buildings were designed to withstand a 150 year storm and the impact of a Boeing 707, and you think jet fuel burning at 2000º F weakened the steel, ultimately resulting in the collapse?

Underwriters Laboratories certified the steel to ASTM E119. The time temperature curve for this standard requires that samples be exposed to temperatures around 2000º F for several hours. The steel applied met those specifications.

And even without the certifications, unfireproofed steel will not melt until reaching red-hot temperatures of nearly 3000º F. If the steel did soften or melt, it was certainly not due to jet fuel fires, let alone the briefly burning fires in those towers.

Reports from that day—from news personnel, civilians, firefighters, and police officers—noted that they heard multiple explosions. A janitor working in sub-level 1 of the basement of the building heard an explosion before the first plane hit. He thought a generator blew up. He then heard another explosion but it was further away, which was the plane hitting. These people felt shockwaves. A plane hitting a building doesn't generate shockwaves, we know this from science, because even readings on seismec readers don't show up when the planes hit.

An eyewitness who was standing about 2.5 blocks from the South Tower saw a number of brief light sources from inside the building between floors 10 and 15. He saw 6 of these before hearing a crackling sound. If you've ever watched a demolition, you know exactly what this crackling sound is. Each tower, as mentioned, has 6 central supports.

The first attack is actually captured on tape, not in the form of video, but in audio. A second explosion is heard 9 seconds after the crash. The noises are completely different.

And then there's the fact that the windows in the North Tower lobby were blown out along with the marble panels that were blown off of the walls. The answer for this was that this was from a raging fireball that went down the elevator shafts. There's one problem with this: the core and elevator shafts are air-tight. There's not enough oxygen for a fire to travel that far down the elevator and do that kind of damage.

If anything, watch the video, and skip ahead to approximately 30-38 minutes into the video. They show all the news clips about the explosions and the reports from people talking about explosions. This was before the collapse as well.

MrIMStoned

Ok, I watched the film in its entirety and am now fully convinced that it was not osama bin laden behind these attacks and that they were staged. There are just too many details that can't be ignored.