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Cassius · 03-29-2006, 04:54 PM

Obviously, this is hardly a recent issue. However, some things have been happening recently that threaten to bring this issue to the forefront.

http://cbs2.com/local/local_story_087231321.html

Quote:

Spanish Media Organized Nationwide Mass Protests

(AP) LOS ANGELES - The marching orders were clear: Carry American flags and pack the kids, pick up your trash and wear white for peace and for effect.

Many of the 500,000 people who crammed downtown Los Angeles on Saturday to protest legislation that would make criminals out of illegal immigrants learned where, when and even how to demonstrate from the Spanish-language media.

For English-speaking America, the mass protests in Los Angeles and other U.S. cities over the past few days have been surprising for their size and seeming spontaneity.

But they were organized, promoted or publicized for weeks by Spanish-language radio hosts and TV anchors as a demonstration of Hispanic pride and power.

In Milwaukee, where at least 10,000 people rallied last week, one radio station manager called some employers to ask that they not fire protesters for skipping work. In Chicago, a demonstration that drew 100,000 people received coverage on local television more than a week in advance.

"This was a much bigger story for the Latino media," said Felix Gutierrez, a professor at the University of Southern California's Annenberg School for Communication. "If the mainstream media had been paying better attention, there would not have been the surprise about the turnout."

Adrian Velasco first learned of House legislation to overhaul immigration policy on Los Angeles' Que Buena 105.5 FM. Over two weeks, the 30-year-old illegal immigrant soaked up details about the planned march against the bill from Hispanic TV and radio. On Saturday, he and three friends headed downtown.

"They told all the Hispanic people to go and support these things," Velasco said. "They explained a lot. They said, 'Here's what we're going to do."'

One of those doing the most talking was El Piolin, a syndicated morning show radio host who is broadcast in 20 cities.

El Piolin, whose real name is Eduardo Sotelo and whose nickname means "Tweety Bird," persuaded colleagues from 11 Spanish-language radio stations in Los Angeles to talk up the rally on air.

He said he devised the idea of telling protesters to wear white and carry flags to symbolize their peaceful intent and love of the United States. He also urged parents to bring their children to minimize chances of violence and reminded everyone to bring plenty of water and trash bags.

"I was talking about how we need to be united to demonstrate that we're not bad guys and we're not criminals," said Sotelo, 35, who crossed into the United States as a teenager and became legal in 1996.

In Milwaukee, the Spanish-language station WDDW 104.7 made a point of publicizing the House legislation and the protest against it on its morning and drive-time shows two weeks ahead of time.

Operations manager Armando Ulloa said his goal was at least 10,000 people -- and police estimated that was what the rally attracted. After the march, Ulloa said, he called some employers and asked them to be lenient on protesters who missed their shifts.

In Los Angeles, 10 prime-time Spanish-language news anchors filmed a promotion urging demonstrators to show respect, said Julio Cesar Ortiz, a television reporter who covers immigration.

"The Spanish media said, 'Do it in a proper way. Do it in a way where's there's pride behind it when you're done,"' Ortiz said.

Telemundo Chicago, a Spanish-language TV station, began its coverage blitz 1 1/2 weeks before a recent rally, though there was no urging that viewers attend, said news director Esteban Creste.

"We just told them what was going on," Creste said. "While we were not trying to mobilize people, it might have prompted people to decide to go there."

The protests continued Tuesday in at least four states, with thousands of students leaving school again in California, Arizona, Texas and Nevada.

In Los Angeles, the numbers were far smaller than the tens of thousands who marched Monday. Authorities thwarted efforts to block freeway traffic, rounding up some youngsters and issuing truancy citations.

In Phoenix, students marched to the state Capitol for the second day in a row. In Las Vegas, they rallied near the Strip after being directed away from casinos.

And in Dallas, students crowded in front of City Hall, waving Mexican and Salvadoran flags and shouting "We can do it" in Spanish.

The protests jammed roads. A Dallas school district spokesman said a girl's hand was severed when the sport utility vehicle she was in sped into an intersection and overturned.

(© 2006 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.)

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20060...2545-2371r.htm

Quote:

Mexican illegals vs. American voters
By Tony Blankley
March 29, 2006

It is lucky America has more than two centuries of mostly calm experience with self-government. We are going to need to fall back on that invaluable patrimony if the immigration debate continues as it has started this season. The Senate is attempting to legislate into the teeth of the will of the American public. The Senate Judiciary Committeemen — and probably a majority of the Senate — are convinced that they know that the American people don't know what is best for them.
National polling data could not be more emphatic — and has been so for decades. Gallup Poll (March 27) finds 80 percent of the public wants the federal government to get tougher on illegal immigration. A Quinnipiac University Poll (March 3) finds 62 percent oppose making it easier for illegals to become citizens (72 percent in that poll don't even want illegals to be permitted to have driver's licenses). Time Magazine's recent poll (Jan. 24-26) found 75 percent favor "major penalties" on employers of illegals, 70 percent believe illegals increase the likelihood of terrorism and 57 percent would use military force at the Mexican-American border.
An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll (March 10-13) found 59 percent opposing a guest-worker proposal, and 71 percent would more likely vote for a congressional candidate who would tighten immigration controls.
An IQ Research poll (March 10) found 92 percent saying that securing the U.S. border should be a top priority of the White House and Congress.
Yet, according to a National Journal survey of Congress, 73 percent of Republican and 77 percent of Democratic congressmen and senators say they would support guest-worker legislation.
I commend to all those presumptuous senators and congressmen the sardonic and wise words of Edmund Burke in his 1792 letter to Sir Hercules Langrishe: "No man will assert seriously, that when people are of a turbulent spirit, the best way to keep them in order is to furnish them with something substantial to complain of." The senators should remember that they are American senators, not Roman proconsuls. Nor is the chairman of the Judiciary Committee some latter-day Praetor Maximus.
But if they would be dictators, it would be nice if they could at least be wise (until such time as the people can electorally forcefully project with a violent pedal thrust their regrettable backsides out of town). It was gut-wrenching (which in my case is a substantial event) to watch the senators prattle on in their idle ignorance concerning the manifold economic benefits that will accrue to the body politic if we can just cram a few million more uneducated illegals into the country. ( I guess ignorance loves company.) Beyond the Senate last week, in a remarkable example of intellectual integrity (in the face of the editorial positions of their newspapers) the chief economic columnists for the New York Times and The Washington Post — Paul Krugman and Robert Samuelson, respectively — laid out the sad facts regarding the economics of the matter. Senators, congressmen and Mr. President, please take note.
Regarding the Senate's and the president's guest-worker proposals, The Post's Robert Samuelson writes: "Gosh, they're all bad ideas ... We'd be importing poverty. This isn't because these immigrants aren't hardworking, many are. Nor is it because they don't assimilate, many do. But they generally don't go home, assimilation is slow and the ranks of the poor are constantly replenished ... [It] is a conscious policy of creating poverty in the United States while relieving it in Mexico ... The most lunatic notion is that admitting more poor Latino workers would ease the labor market strains of retiring baby boomers ? Far from softening the social problems of an aging society, more poor immigrants might aggravate them by pitting older retirees against younger Hispanics for limited government benefits ... [Moreover], [i]t's a myth that the U.S. economy 'needs' more poor immigrants.
"The illegal immigrants already here represent only about 4.9 percent of the labor force." (For all Mr. Samuelson's supporting statistics, see his Washington Post column of March 22, from which this is taken.) Likewise, a few days later, the very liberal and often partisan Paul Krugman of the New York Times courageously wrote : "Unfortunately, low-skill immigrants don't pay enough taxes to cover the cost of the [government] benefits they receive ? As the Swiss writer Max Frisch wrote about his own country's experience with immigration, 'We wanted a labor force, but human beings came.' " Mr. Krugman also observed — citing a leading Harvard study — "that U.S. high school dropouts would earn as much as 8 percent more if it weren't for Mexican immigration. That's why it's intellectually dishonest to say, as President Bush does, that immigrants 'do jobs that Americans will not do.' The willingness of Americans to do a job depends on how much that job pays — and the reason some jobs pay too little to attract native-born Americans is competition from poorly paid immigrants." Thusly do the two leading economic writers for the nation's two leading liberal newspapers summarily debunk the economic underpinning of the president's and the Senate's immigration proposals.
Under such circumstances, advocates of guest-worker/amnesty bills will find it frustratingly hard to defend their arrogant plans by their preferred tactic of slandering those who disagree with them as racist, nativist and xenophobic.
When the slandered ones include not only The Washington Post and the New York Times, but about 70 percent of the public, it is not only bad manners, but bad politics.
The public demand to protect our borders will triumph sooner or later. And, the more brazen the opposing politicians, the sooner will come the triumph.
So legislate on, you proud and foolish senators — and hasten your political demise.

Many questions about this issue remain unanswered. Does immigration really amount to Mexico outsourcing its poverty to the US? What are the long-term effects of illegal immigration? What are the long-term effects of granting amnesty to illegal aliens? Why do our elected representatives seem to be so anxious to create a legal environment for illegal residents to work in? What percentage of the wealth earned by the labor of illegal residents is sent back to Mexico, and what percentage stays here? Is Mexico the only problem because of its levels of poverty, or is immigration from other nations likewise going to be a problem in coming years?

I'm very ambivalent about this issue. The only thing I can say for sure is that I don't really have enough information to have an opinion one way or the other. Here in the Midwest, it hasn't been that much of a problem, but yes we even have illegal aliens living and working here, and it didn't seem like we did a decade ago. What happens when hispanics are a majority of the overall population, what changes is that going to have on our country? I strive my very best not to be racist, but it would be foolish to think that it wouldn't have an effect.

Higher Logic · 03-29-2006, 06:25 PM

We should just make Mexico another state, that would solve everything

Cassius · 03-29-2006, 07:54 PM

The Saga Continues:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12056872/

Quote:

Students From More Than 20 Schools Continue Protests

KNBC-TV
3:53 p.m. PST March 28, 2006
LOS ANGELES - Despite school lockdowns and rainy weather, thousands of students from nearly two dozen Los Angeles campuses rallied again Tuesday against proposed immigration reforms, and some clashed with sheriff's deputies in Carson. Images: Protests Across Country | Video: Tuesday Protests

Los Angeles Unified School District officials estimated that as many as 6,000 students may have taken part in protests today, or at least did not show up for school. Monica Carazo of the district said 20 to 24 schools were affected. The students have been marching in opposition to a House bill, passed in December, cracking down on illegal immigration, making it a federal offense to enter the country illegally. The U.S. Senate is debating immigration legislation this week.

The protests, now in their third consecutive school day, led to some tense moments outside Carson High School, where about 200 to 300 students rallied and some clashed with sheriff's deputies.

Sgt. Nick Burns of the Compton Sheriff's Station said three juveniles were arrested. He said he did not now if they were Carson High School students or from other schools.

One person was arrested for battery on a peace officer, another for resisting a peace officer and the third for disorderly conduct, he said.

In San Pedro, police herded about 150 students off an access road leading to the Vincent Thomas Bridge. Some of the students were cited, according to the Los Angeles Police Department.

"A judge could impose a fine, he could impose some conditions of the child staying in school," LAPD Capt. Paul Pesqueria told KFWB.

Some parents joined the San Pedro rally. "I'm all for him," one parent told KFWB of her son. "I'm behind him and I will take him anywhere I have to take him, even to the White House if I have to."

District officials said they hoped locking down the campuses Tuesday would help quell the riots. Lesson plans were adjusted to include a discussion of the immigration bill introduced by Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., which would crack down on employers hiring illegal workers and people smuggling illegal immigrants into the country.

Cassius · 03-29-2006, 08:19 PM

Think this is just about skipping class for a day? Read this:

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49482

Quote:

Activists turn tables, offer no amnesty for 'non-indigenous' on 'our continent'

Posted: March 29, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

WASHINGTON – While debates about guest-worker programs for illegal aliens take place in the corridors of power, in the streets of America's big cities no amnesty is being offered by activists calling for the expulsion of most U.S. citizens from their own country.

While politicians debate the fate of some 12 million people residing in the U.S. illegally, the Mexica Movement, one of the organizers of the mass protest in Los Angeles this week, has already decided it is the "non-indigenous," white, English-speaking U.S. citizens of European descent who have to leave what they call "our continent."

The pictures and captions tell the story.

"This is our continent, not yours!" exclaimed one banner.

"We are indigenous! The only owners of this continent!" said another.

"If you think I'm illegal because I'm a Mexican, learn the true history, because I'm in my homeland," read another sign.

"One of the more negative parts of the march was when American flags were passed out to make sure the marchers were looked on as part of 'America,'" said the group's commentary on the L.A. rally.

Both Rep. James Sensebrenner, R-Wis., chairman of the House Judiciary Committee and a proponent of tougher border security, and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger were caricatured as Nazis by the group on its posters and banners.

The group insists the indigenous people of the continent were the victims of genocide – a campaign of extermination that killed, according to one citation, 95 percent of their population, or 33 million people. Another citation on the same website claims the toll was 70 million to 100 million.

The only solution, says the Mexica Movement, is to expel the invaders of the last 500 years, force them to pay reparations and return the continent to its rightful heirs.

The platform of the group illustrates the diverse – and sometimes extreme – agendas of those participating in the mass mobilizations that have been seen largely as protests against efforts to curb illegal immigration.

Some of those involved, including the Mexica Movement, have much bigger goals than stopping a piece of legislation before Congress.

The Mexica Movement has big issues with many other equally radical groups participating in the massive, united-front rallies. The group makes a point of distinguishing its goals and objectives from others, such as the separatist Aztlan Movement.

Aztlan, the mythical birthplace of the Aztecs, is regarded in Chicano folklore as an area that includes California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and parts of Colorado and Texas. The movement seeks to create a sovereign, Spanish-speaking state, "Republica del Norte," or the Republic of the North, that would combine the American Southwest with the northern Mexican states and eventually merge with Mexico.

A group called "La Voz de Aztlan," the Voice of Aztlan, identifies Mexicans in the U.S. as "America's Palestinians." Many Mexicans see themselves as part of a transnational ethnic group known as "La Raza," the race. A May editorial on the website, with a dateline of Los Angeles, Alta California, declares that "both La Raza and the Palestinians have been displaced by invaders that have utilized military means to conquer and occupy our territories."

Others in the coalition hope to see a "reconquest" of the American southwest by Mexico. This would not likely take place through military action, they say, but rather through a slow process of migration – both legal and illegal.

Murdock · 04-02-2006, 01:45 PM

An Intresting quote from Representative Dana Rohrabacher, Republican of California.

Quote:

Representative Dana Rohrabacher, Republican of California, dismissed arguments made by President Bush and business leaders who say the United States needs a pool of foreign workers. He said businesses should be more creative in their efforts to find help and suggested that employers turn to the prison population to fill jobs in agriculture and elsewhere.

"Let the prisoners pick the fruits," Mr. Rohrabacher said. "We can do it without bringing in millions of foreigners."

Link

How about our prison population as a replacement for the "jobs americans dont want"?

smoking joe · 04-02-2006, 03:48 PM

There is a right way and a wrong way to come to this country.
The wrong way is to just SNEEK in.
The right way is to apply for a visa, get the visa, come to this country and apply for resident alien status then apply for citizenship.
But no, its sooooo much easier to cross the Rio Grande at midnight.
This problem isn't going away though. But the problem could be severely curtailed if they went after the employers of the illegal immigrants. Make it a felony to hire these people and have some high profile cases and make a few examples and the message would be loud and clear.

**Sec** · 04-02-2006, 05:17 PM

I knew eventually I would agree with you on something.

**dedbr** · 04-02-2006, 05:54 PM

population groups have moved towards survival. It can't be stopped. I don't know why we even try.

If theres no mean's of survival, they will naturally move towards it, can't be stopped.

Le habla...por favor,

***Plainsman1963*** · 04-02-2006, 06:55 PM

I'm kind of with Cassius on this one...Ambivalent. Mostly because I'm not as up on this issue...But why should that stop me from having an opinion.

I have heard estimates that there are anywhere from 10-12 million illegal immigrants in this country.
I would suppose that the majority are employed.
We have an unemployment rate of around 4-5%.

Math was never my strong suit, but it would seem we would have a serious problem staffing jobs.
Now, I have always thought as well that the prisoner population could be used, but then I think about the possibility of the corruption (actually, I guess it would be the further corruption) of the penal industry to keep those jobs filled.

But it is sure attractive to think about replacing those $15.00-$25.00 an hour highway worker jobs with cheap labor.
Probably bring our taxes down a bit if we cut the wages of the Dept. of Transportation workers.

But again, I digress.

I agree with Joe concerning we need to focus on the employers if this is something we really want a chance of stopping.
Hit them hard when they employ illegal aliens, make it too damn expensive to try to get the "cheap" labor and then we will see some effect.

As well, make sure that illegal immigrants cannot get benefits (such as unemployment, food stamps, etc.).

Lastly, I really don't like the thought of this "fence" that folks keep talking about. To have room to build this fence on, they will have to take privately owned land and I don't like that idea at all.

smoking joe · 04-02-2006, 08:23 PM

Illegal immigrants are todays version of a slave. Pay them next to nothing, give them no benefits and threaten them with deportation if they complain.
If you want to kill a snake, you chop its head off. Punish the people that hire them and the problem will disappear. Don't cry for them (the employers) as they are basically pond scum.

03-29-2006, 06:25 PM	#2
Higher Logic Web Developer Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,123 Grams: 5,802.43 Groans: 3 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 2 Thanked 58 Times in 33 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	We should just make Mexico another state, that would solve everything __________________ Crucial Web Hosting · Garden's Cure · Marijuana Recipes · Drug Testing Facts Dilution · Substitution · Urine Testing · Hair Testing · Drug Testing FAQ

04-02-2006, 05:17 PM	#7
Sec Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6,242 Grams: 37,870.63 Groans: 15 Groaned at 29 Times in 24 Posts Thanks: 664 Thanked 1,484 Times in 914 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	I knew eventually I would agree with you on something. __________________ Guidelines. Search http://www.marijuana.com/drug-test/index

04-02-2006, 05:54 PM	#8
dedbr Always Faithful Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 6,942 Grams: 35,482.95 Groans: 11 Groaned at 22 Times in 15 Posts Thanks: 2,469 Thanked 2,284 Times in 1,031 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Throughout history.... population groups have moved towards survival. It can't be stopped. I don't know why we even try. If theres no mean's of survival, they will naturally move towards it, can't be stopped. Le habla...por favor, __________________ "We have met the enemy, and he is us" .......... Pogo (for Prez...) Remember to check out our most wonderful Posting Guidelines!

04-02-2006, 06:55 PM	#9
*Plainsman1963* Advisor Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 5,282 Groans: 28 Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts Thanks: 545 Thanked 1,204 Times in 610 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: -1.000%	I'm kind of with Cassius on this one...Ambivalent. Mostly because I'm not as up on this issue...But why should that stop me from having an opinion. I have heard estimates that there are anywhere from 10-12 million illegal immigrants in this country. I would suppose that the majority are employed. We have an unemployment rate of around 4-5%. Math was never my strong suit, but it would seem we would have a serious problem staffing jobs. Now, I have always thought as well that the prisoner population could be used, but then I think about the possibility of the corruption (actually, I guess it would be the further corruption) of the penal industry to keep those jobs filled. But it is sure attractive to think about replacing those $15.00-$25.00 an hour highway worker jobs with cheap labor. Probably bring our taxes down a bit if we cut the wages of the Dept. of Transportation workers. But again, I digress. I agree with Joe concerning we need to focus on the employers if this is something we really want a chance of stopping. Hit them hard when they employ illegal aliens, make it too damn expensive to try to get the "cheap" labor and then we will see some effect. As well, make sure that illegal immigrants cannot get benefits (such as unemployment, food stamps, etc.). Lastly, I really don't like the thought of this "fence" that folks keep talking about. To have room to build this fence on, they will have to take privately owned land and I don't like that idea at all. __________________ "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." - Claire Wolfe Posting Guidelines

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04-02-2006, 03:48 PM	#6
smoking joe Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 36 Grams: 25.80 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	There is a right way and a wrong way to come to this country. The wrong way is to just SNEEK in. The right way is to apply for a visa, get the visa, come to this country and apply for resident alien status then apply for citizenship. But no, its sooooo much easier to cross the Rio Grande at midnight. This problem isn't going away though. But the problem could be severely curtailed if they went after the employers of the illegal immigrants. Make it a felony to hire these people and have some high profile cases and make a few examples and the message would be loud and clear.

04-02-2006, 08:23 PM	#10
smoking joe Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 36 Grams: 25.80 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Illegal immigrants are todays version of a slave. Pay them next to nothing, give them no benefits and threaten them with deportation if they complain. If you want to kill a snake, you chop its head off. Punish the people that hire them and the problem will disappear. Don't cry for them (the employers) as they are basically pond scum.

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