Stephanie S.

So we were watching George Carlin thuther evening and he's going off on how we are a "war loving people...we LOVE war!" He pointed out that we have wars for everything, war on violence (now THAT's a contradiction of terms!!), War on Drugs, War on Child Abuse, etc. His point was that there is major profit in war, hence the reason there is no war on homelessness..there's no money is homelessness. There is however a good chunk of money to be made in a War on Drugs.

Much of this has been discussed on these boards at one time or another, so anyone who's been in on one of these discussions, forgive me for my redundacy.

So, we have this War on Drugs. Who makes money on it? Well, that's the question I have before me, and I wonder if anyone has any ideas before I lay mine out.

Another issue with war is Fear. People tend to lash out when in fear, and our government has shoved death and danger messages down our throats about drugs. I wonder where we got the fear? Fear breeds contempt, no? The end result of this fear? War!


From the Encarta dictionary:
War means -

1. armed fighting between groups: an armed conflict between countries or groups that involves killing and destruction: The two countries are at war.

2. period during war: a period of armed conflict: during the Vietnam War

3. methods of warfare: the techniques or the study of the techniques of armed conflict

4. conflict: any serious struggle, argument, or conflict between people: The candidates are at war.

5. serious effort to end something: an effort to eradicate something harmful: a war against drugs

See, we have a serious effort to end something harmful. When did that definition get added to the dictionary? I hear the word war and the first four definitions are closer to what comes to mind than the fifth one. Our government is warring against us, trying to eradicate something they call harmful with no real evidence to back it up.

Drug Abuse is a problem, addiction is a problem, but trying to eradicate something that is simply a part of huma nature? Well, I just find that to be a sincere waste of man power, money, time and lives. Police officers are the soldiers (Have you realized that? Directed to LEO's I know that it is an officers job and duty to enforce the laws set before them. I just don't agree with the government making the nations police forces a strand of the Armed Forces aimed against the citizens they are put in place to protect.
I know that many people have deep belief in the hatred for and desire to end the use of drugs and that really bothers me. The hatred and animosity for something they refuse to understand or deal with. I hate it, let's get rid of it. Well, I hate the idea of guns being made available as easily as they are, yet I would never attempt to infringe on anyone's constitutional right. I believe that it is my constitutional right to smoke marijuana and put anything into my body I choose. If I am misinterpreting the constitution and seeing something wrong, then why are we allowed to put alcohol and tobacco into our bodies.

To simply say, "I enforce the laws," or "I agree with the laws'" and turn our backs on the truth is just maddening to me.


How long can this country keep perpetuating this nonsense?

Drug Control - Not Drug War
Drug Education - Not Eradication
Drug Regulation- Not Prohibition


The drug war, eradication and prohibition are concepts we know Don't Work!!! WHY does it go on? Because someone(s) are making money on it? Who?


peace

Greenman

It has been some times since I have read anything from you SS, glad to see you still have your touch for calling it like it is.

One point I would like to ellaborate on reguards the Law Enforcement Officers.

There is a tenious relationship between the citizens and those we entrust to police over us. The police represent the force behind any government law. Because of this, I think police need to give some consideration to the fact that they are normally the grunt force in any tyrannical rulership, and because of this should be the most alert when a law violates the consitution.

In order for a law to infringe on a constitutional right, there needs to be suffecient evidence that the greater public good is being threatened by the action that is the subject of the law. This is why child pornography is not protected under the first ammendment guarentee of freedom of speech, nor are slanderous statements about a persons charecter.

I am not suggesting that every LEO should analyze every law their local, state, and federal level and question its constitutionality or ethical viability, that is not their job nor their qualification. But when there has been a significant public outcry reguarding injustices of any law, yes, they should analyze that law. And take action on what they discover. I am not suggesting that non-enforcement of the law is always the alternative, just one of them. Speaking up about the law is another.

It is impossible for any LEO to have buried his head in the sand deep enough to not be aware of the Drug War Controversy, and atleast some of the pros and cons of it. Hundreds of thousands of lives are upset or destroyed every year because of this law, and any police officer who does not sit up and take notice of that in light of the public outcry is betraying his public duty. We look to the police for guidence, and when we do not see it, that is what breeds contempt for the police. And that contempt is what gets officers killed needlessly. And that I think is a crying shame.

Peace.

GotGods

think about what would happen if there were no war on drugs think about all the harmful drugs that would flood the country most marijuana is grown in the us and only a small percentage of it is imported would you feel better knowing that heroin,cocaine,and opiates just to name a few were just as avalable as weed sure the war on drug is an inconvienience to us pot smokers but you have to look at the whole picture not just certain aspects that appeal to you and also think about all the violence that would arise from drug king pins just freely flooding the country with harmful drugs with nothing to stop them.sure i think the war on marijuana is kinda dumb since it grows from the ground but i personaly like the fact that the war on drugs will keep my children from easily gaining access to more dangerous illicit drugs

GotGods

and also just because you think that the war on drugs doesnt work of course it does not fully stop the problem no law ever does do you think that just because the government says something is illegal everyone will listen?? i think not if that were true there would be no one in prison today laws are made to keep people in check and to keep bad things to a minimum

tha_hashassin

who's cashing in, you ask? i think politicians, law enforcement agencies, pharmaceutical and petroleum corporations. these are the folks who have the most to gain. drug dealers too, of course, they don't want legalization any more than the DEA.

gotgods, i think just the oppisite is true. because of the war on drugs, your kids have greater access to those types of drugs. think of it, the same guy who sells weed is more likely to also sell cocaine or herion. "i'm all out of weed right now, why not try..." if they were legal, licensed dealers would be most like the folks selling 'em. who's gonna go to the guy on the corner to buy herion that's been cut with god knows what when they could go to the licensed store on the corner and buy something of more consistant purity and get clean needles too. if all drugs were legal, they would be alot safer and alot cheaper. by lowering the cost, you cut down on the robberies/muggings. the street dealer would most likely be a thing of the past, which would cut down on alot of the violence that comes from 'turf wars'.

GotGods

ok you obliviosly didnt read my post i said that the war on drugs keeps illicit drug prices up and keeps smaller amouts of that drug on the street rather than dealers importing as much as they want lowereing prices and spreading use to more people since it would be more available to anyone

Greenman

I am sorry to say GotGods, but yer wrong. Allow me to illustrate.

Morphine is legal, which is a derivitive of heroine, so is codine. Doctors can also perscribe cocaine to patients if need be. Should all drugs be legal, yes to an extent. No one is suggesting that you will be able to go to the store and buy 95% pure cocaine or heroin when legalization comes about. The problem is that the scheduleing for some drugs listed in Schedule I (prohibited substances that have no medical use and high potential for abuse) are mis-scheduled.

Marijuana, which is the focus of this debate, has a history of medical use that stretchs back several millenia. Cannibas was the number one over the counter pain killer in the United States prior to the rediscovery of asprine, which bumped cannibas down to number 2. Not to mention that it was used quite extensivly as a sedative and sleep aid for people from cradle to grave for the majority of our history as a nation. Cannibas was listed in the pharmacopia until the 1950's when it was removed. Marijuana has also a low potential for addiction, as can be read in the IOM report dating back March 1999 ( http://www.marijuana.com/pdf/iom.pdf ), expecially when you consider the addicitve qualities of other over the counter drugs such as nicotine, alcohol, and some diet medications.

This scientific information alone warrents a reschedueling of marijuana under the Controlled Substances Act of 1970.

I am not as current on the science behind the rest of the illegal substances, although if the science present warrents a reschedueling of those as well then so be it, although I am sure you wouldn't be finding any heroin at your local supermarket or pick up a pack of coke at a convience store. The addictive potential of those substances have been documented and as a result would never be allowed in an over the counter method (with the possible acception of the drugs being present in quantites that are not habit forming or detrimental to your health. An example would be the cocaine used in the original Coca Cola formula. Although as I said, I am not current on the science behind the other illegal drugs, given that this is marijuana.com, as site about marijuana, I am not required to be.

Another Fact. If we were to put a store that sells all the illegal drugs available to our children in front of every single school, church, and youth athletic facility in America, there would be less places for kids to get drugs than the situation we are in now. The only differences would be that the store would have to be liscensed to sell the drugs, the quality of the drugs would be regulated, age restrictions on the purchase of the drugs would be imposed and a clearly visible line of accountability if any of these factors was neglected, overlooked, or not enforced. This is not including the other laws and public saftey concerns that every buisness must take into consideration.

The store owner would not be pressured to sell more addictive and more costly drugs simply because the financial motive is no longer there. Since the trade of drugs have been brought into the normal market, normal market pressures will serve to regulate prices the same as it does for computers, food, and everything else we buy or sell. If someone is charging an excessive amount of money for their product, it would be very easy for any entrapenuer to come in, open up a buisness selling the same product at half the cost for the same quality and force the other competitor to lower their prices or go out of buisness.

In order for the drug kingpins to continue to sell their products to America, they would have to become liscensed cultivators or distributers, akin to what we have with alcohol. The liscense will control quality of the product. If the quality drops below a predetermined point then their liscense shall be revoked, also akin to what we have with alcohol. Because of the pressures of the market place, they would be forced to sell their product at a lower cost, simply because no one will pay more money for an inferior product.

It is very important when discussion the legalizations of drugs to remember we are not talking about a free for all. Because that will simply never happen. There will be laws and regulations in place to control the distribution and elligablility of purchase of a substance.

Look at alcohol prohibition and the alcohol industry now. In the 20's, alcohol was produced by the mob and sold in speak-easys owned or operated by the mob. Violence was rampent in the streets (although atleast the gangsters of old had some standards and didn't go around whacking innocents to prove their point about their turf), and booze was flowing freely despite the government's best efforts to keep it away. People were making it in their bathtubs for crying out loud.

Now, the brewing and sale of alcohol is regulated, the crime rate has decreased, the quality of the drink has improved and the cost has decreased. The mob no longer runs alcohol cartels because it simply isn't profitable to do so. Yes alcohol causes it problems in our society, but those problems pale in comparison to those that were around when the mob ran it all.

If someone steals your bag, or steals your front money, what recourse do you have? You can't call the police and report it, because you would be admitting to a crime. The only choices that you have is either to do nothing and never deal with that person again, or to enact some sort of revenge, which is normally a crime. Once marijuana has been legalized and its distribution set up, there will no longer be the need to steal a bag, give up front money, or enact revenge on someone because you have no legal alternitive. 3 crimes, whiped away.

Peace.

tha_hashassin

thanks greenman, that's what i was trying to say, only you said it better than i ever could have

GotGods

i have to say GreenMan i aggre with you after some reasearching i think that it would be better if drugs were regulated and sold like beer,to people over a certain age this would erase the drugdealer as we know it and probably keep our children safer than they are now considering they can go to any project and get any drug they want no matter how old they are. sorry to jump to conclusions like that

GotGods

and also i was thinking more that StonedStephanie was refering to the WOD as just things like the boarder checks and thing like that. if we stopped controlling drugs from coming in they were still illegal my theory would take place but i see what you mean about regulation