Daniel

ABC news reports at least 8 American soldiers were killed in the latest fighting.

Though I feel that what is happening is just, and blood is at times the cost of liberty; When is the price too much?

<sigh>

Any thoughts?


Daniel

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huntcc02

I hear its 9. If you are gonna be a war supporter, don't let these casualties upset you. We have only lost a total of about 15 men in this offensive, and I would say that if you think war is gonna solve this, we unfortunately are going to have to expend more than 15 soldiers. However, I am not sure if I am a war supporter. I think Bush ran into this fight, and there might have been a better way to solve it. However, seeing that I don't know everything that happens in the white house, I can't say for certain that there could have been a better solution.

Niteshift

Sure, I'd prefer zero casualties, but the reality is that in combat, people get hurt and get killed.

Always keep something in mind....... The job of the military is simple. It is to blow sh*t up, break things and kill people. That is the basic function. Over the years, the military has been used as a "peacekeeping force" and for humanitarian aid. Noble causes, to be sure, but that's not the military's function. It is not a global pizza delivery that should be bringing food to people, their job is to blow sh*t up and kill people. Through years of "peacekeeping" and pizza delivery, many people have forgotten that concept.

Once you remember that, then the rules of combat kick in. One of the basic rules is simple: If the enemy is within range, so are you. That means bad things will happen to good people, regardless of how right, wrong, noble or malicious their purpose for being there is.

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KWhite

I agree Niteshift.

And that is exactly why we need to be careful about where we are sending that selfsame military.
I may agree with Afghanistan.

....may......


I see no reason to place our personnel in harms way in other little wars, battles, brushfires, skirmishes or any other fancy way to describe the act of blowing sh*t up without good cause.

See Columbia.

While the body bags seem to be and are an inevitable part of power projection as used by us in this new century, it might well be prudent to limit the number of soldiers we bring within range of enemy interests, we seem to have taken the idea that all other armies or groups are just gonna roll over and be walked on by us. It feels like we have forgotten viet nam and the lessons learned painfully. Lessons taught by a taskmaster that had little or no parity with our military might. Lessons I maight add, that we swore would never bite us in the butt again.

Now, isolationism is definitely not the answer but then neither is the Shrub adminsitrations active campaign to anger everybody in the world that disagrees with the head Shrub locoBush Himself.

Or America as newly personified by G dubyah.

Sure, doing things the way we do things is bound to anger some. And it is also bound to bring some of us home to a seven gun salute. The cost of being the biggest dog on the block perhaps.

But from over here, it seems as though Bush is doing anything he can to get the war to grow, not just trying to gain stabilitiy, actually doing everything in his power to get this to grow like wildfire.

The sentiment over here is incredible, I have never seen such cynicism. The words you tend to hear anymore are...... "Throwing thier weight around" .... "Maybe they should see if they can do it all by themselves?" Or the one I read this morning....

"If Germany were doing as American is doing, we would be accused of starting a war of aggression"

Maybe we can do it all alone. That is not my point however.
Those body bags coming home can only become exclusively American and definitively more in number if we try to do things alone. And I for one think it would get darned lonely without an ally or three. Esüecially when it appears as though we are just tossing thier good opinion of us away, in the race to achieve political ends not necessarily held by the American people.

I will concede that I may be wrong however.

Opinion subject to change with new data.

But for the moment

thats the way it seems to me.
Kelly

Bongzilla

Yeah I heard nine too.

500 people have died in India in 5 days. I was talking to people today and they hadn't even heard of it. The problem with people is they have compassion only (or more so) for those from their religion or geographical location. Nine soldiers being killed in combat is a tragedy yet a kid being killed by a bomb is a casuality of war...

Both are sad, but I have yet to see a thread on the anarchy going on in India.

KWhite

YOu should see the German reaction.
They lost 2 guys while exploding 2 russian sams.

We are very aware that our people often come home in heavy plastic.

These folks have not had to deal with this type of thing since '45.

I look at the BundesKanzler *Chancellor*
And the man is MOVED!
His decision has cost the lives of two young people.


I se the shrub and he says..
"Yup, business as usual, gonna be a lot more before...."

Paraphrased sarcastically of course.

The war on terror has to be fought.
I think trained Police officers should be doing it.
I truly think the use of military force is like a dragon thrashing its tail through the bushes to get rid of mice.
Impressive, makes a lot of noise, the Dragon even gets some bruises from smacking against trees while trying to hit the mice.
But the mice..they are not stupid.
Aside from a few who got caught in a hole, the mice are gone.
The Dragon is making a lot of effort, raising alot of dust.
While the other mice are planning to use its distraction and go gnaw through its eggs, therby deleting future generations of noisy Dragons.

*Sigh*

I do not know, It is juszt hard for me, I am pretty typical.
And really, c'mon, we quit crying over body bags in 1973 did we not?

I mean they just seem to go handf in hand with World Power Politics.
But I cannot help but see the reactions here, the shock, it is like they did not think it throughh. send troops, sure.
And now they are starting to come home.
dead

Some part of me, the part that grew up watching the Nam on t.v.
The part that sat on the east German Border, locked and loaded waiting to see if we were gfonna take on the Russians over an airliner.
The part that remebers repeatedly wiping sand from the fuze well of my h.e. rounds, and watching my privates drink water, watching them pee hours later because heat and dehydration are traps for the unwary, doubly so in chemical suits.
That part wants to shrug and tell the Germans.

"You want to hang with the big dogs...buy bigger cemetaries"

But some part of me really mourns for what feels like a lost innocence. Actually detests that jaded calloused outlook.

I do not know.
There are many things that this new world situation is teaching me.
The first and strongest lesson?

I do not have all the answers.

But I wish I could find a middle ground, perhaps the answers would come easier then.

Kelly

mindraver

come on guys! dont you know that WAR = $$$

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DoritosMan

wars sucks. Just another useless fact i know: During the XX century there was not one day that passed by with out somebody being killed in some sort of conflict. And i think XXI is going the same way

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PsYcHoLoGiCaL

Really if we didnt go in now and just let the cells exisit it would probably end up in far more bloodshed then this little so called war that we are fighting. You do know these terrorists would love to get there hands on a nuke and smuggle it into the country, hell they may already have them. So yea i say kill, kill, kill, and kill some more untill the threat is atleast weaken a considerable extent.

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Bongzilla

Do you honestly thing this war will 'stop terrorism'? In order to stop terrorism, you have to get rid of all freedoms and keep everyone under surveillance. It can't happen and won't happen. This war is about revenge.

Frankly one good thing about the whole 9/11 thing is it gives us paranoid people out there hope that the government doesn't know everything.