huntcc02

Everyone is giving the government, especially the CIA and FBI, flack about how they had information pertaining to the September 11th attacks before the event. That very well may be true, but first of all, how much of that kind of sheot do you think they get A DAY? They don't know which of it is a real threat, and which isn't. Granted, it is their job to determine that, but they have to choose their battles. Second of all, what do you think they would do? Beef up security at airports? Do you really think the American public would stand for that without something like September 11th happening first? I don't think so. I know that if before September 11th, I was at the airport and all of a sudden there was a 3 hour delay, I would be pissed. THEN, if someone told me it was because the CIA had a hunch that someone might attack our country on airplanes sometime in the future, I would ****e my pants!! Me and about 50 million other americans. So all I am trying to say is sure they made a mistake, but that doesn't mean we have to jump on their backs about it. Anyone agree/disagree?

caliskunk1

i get what you mean, but if they had their prioritys straight, they may have caught it. The millions (billions?) spent on the War on Some Drugs could have went to terrorist investigations

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Niteshift

I don't think the WoD had anything to do with it.

Like I said somewhere on this forum, the US totally missed an entire Japanese fleet, including multiple aircraft carriers, steaming towards Pearl Harbor. That's a lot of damn ships. Plus, radio intercepts should have clued them in.

But somehow, missing 10-12 guys, boarding planes at a couple of different busy international airports was "the biggest intelligence f-up of all time"?

I don't think so. We've had a couple of ones equally as big, like Pearl Harbor, which happened when the WoD was secondary to the War on Moonshiners.

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Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is muzzle flash.

DoritosMan

The sad thing is that these things are unpredictable. And sadly it will probably happen again

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another tasteless and odorless latin american

I pity the fool that dont use the search engine!

Shaman

Apparently, FBI director Mueller disagrees with you. After all the criticism (sp?) came up, he was "reorganizing" the department. He stated that he was going to take agents away from the war on drugs and put them on the war on terrorism. (The speculation here being that if they were on the war on terrorism in the first place, they could have made a difference on 911)

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Conine

What's to give em a break on? It's not like someone forgot to take the trash to the curb! If they feel that they have enough resources placed in counter-terrorism so that they can also focus on pot enforcement... then WHOOPS, we made a mistake, then why should I just grin and say "better luck next time?"

Priorities need to be set a little more on protecting the country and a little less on plant enforcement. But hey, don't mind me, I'm just a bitter troll who's pissed that when things didn't go MY way, they didn't decide to give ME a break. Call me crazy, but if the post 9/11 govt. still sees fit to hold me accountable for posession of a gram of pot, then I think I can still hold them accountable for one of the largest intelligence failures in the history of the country.

[/end rant]

At least NOW they're starting to get their priorities straight.

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Niteshift

"Apparently, FBI director Mueller disagrees with you. After all the criticism (sp?) came up, he was "reorganizing" the department. He stated that he was going to take agents away from the war on drugs and put them on the war on terrorism."

That in no way means that if he'd done it before that they would have caught them. Hell, the FBI knew about the guys taking flight lessons etc. They simply fumbled the ball in the admin chain. Their intel gathering was up to speed on that particular issue.

I stand by what I said and I'd bet if he were asked the question in specific terms, Mueller would agree.

"He stated that he was going to take agents away from the war on drugs and put them on the war on terrorism."

That's all well and good, but as I said in another thread, the FBI never was, nor should it be, the major player in the WoD. The majority of those assigned to WoD duties now are agents that were in counter-espionage during the Cold War. When there was no more Soviet Union, they had to give them something to do, so they were added to WoD duties.

BTW, that reinforces what I've said before when people claim that the cops oppose mj legalization because they'll lose jobs. No, they'll be re-assigned.


"If they feel that they have enough resources placed in counter-terrorism so that they can also focus on pot enforcement... "

That always bothers me............damn little is placed into "pot enforcement" in the big picture. It's placed into drug enforcement in general. Catching a ship smuggling contraband into the US is catching a ship. Later, we'll find out if it is carrying pot, some other drug, Cuban cigars, weapons or illegal immigrants. Same with catching a plane, a car, whatever.

When it comes down to it, pot enforcement is cheaper and faster than other drugs. Rules of this forum prohibit me from expanding on that much, but to say that "pot enforcement" is even a minor factor in this is an overstatement in my view.


"Call me crazy, but if the post 9/11 govt. still sees fit to hold me accountable for posession of a gram of pot, then I think I can still hold them accountable for one of the largest intelligence failures in the history of the country."

There is a bit of a difference..........you knowingly make a conscious choice. Their's is based on "incompetence". There is a difference.

Shaman

I still think that there's a posibility that if their intelligence that was being focused on the WOD was focused on those tips about the hijackers, they might not have dropped the ball. It's impossible to tell after the fact, though.
No, they shouldn't be. They do seem to take an active part in it though, and they must have been focused on it somewhat for them to even mention that they would not be focusing on it anymore.

Niteshift

"I still think that there's a posibility that if their intelligence that was being focused on the WOD was focused on those tips about the hijackers, they might not have dropped the ball. It's impossible to tell after the fact, though."

Actually, being familiar with how the FBI truly works, I find a couple of other explainations much more plausible.

First, the FBI is filled with bureaucrats that are trying to get ahead........they want to be "the hero". So if one can sit on a report until he can "develop the information" for himself and look good in the process, some will do it.

Second, the agent that originated the Phoenix report was a specialist in counter-terrorism. Like anyone who specializes in something, he tended to see terrorism wherever he looked. He'd passed along intel theories before that hadn't panned out, so it almost became a "boy who cried wolf" thing........Oh, it's Frank and his terrorists again

Third, in general, most things just move slow in bureaucracies like the FBI. The analogy I like is that it's like elephants having sex......... lots of noise and activity at high levels, but it takes 2 years to see any results.

Bongzilla

I think that's always the problem with any level of the government (or establishment for that matter): they are people. We forget that all the people behind all of it aren't just doing it for the good of the people, and that they have greed, pride, ambition, etc. Damn emotions