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**Hashishi** · 12-31-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Saddam provided more food to the Iraqis than the US
The U.S.-backed Iraqi government will half Iraqis' rations because of "insufficient funds and spiraling inflation."

The Iraqi government announcement that monthly food rations will be cut by half has left many Iraqis asking how they can survive. The government also wants to reduce the number of people depending on the rationing system by five million by June 2008.

Iraq's food rations system was introduced by the Saddam Hussein government in 1991 in response to the UN economic sanctions. Families were allotted basic foodstuffs monthly because the Iraqi Dinar and the economy collapsed.

The sanctions, imposed after Saddam Hussein ordered the invasion of Kuwait, were described as "genocidal" by Denis Halliday, then UN humanitarian coordinator in Iraq. Halliday quit his post in protest against the U.S.-backed sanctions.

The sanctions killed half a million Iraqi children, and as many adults, according to the UN. They brought malnutrition, disease, and lack of medicines. Iraqis became nearly completely reliant on food rations for survival. The programme has continued into the U.S.-led occupation.

But now the U.S.-backed Iraqi government has announced it will halve the essential items in the ration because of "insufficient funds and spiralling inflation."

The cuts, which are to be introduced in the beginning of 2008, have drawn widespread criticism. The Iraqi government is unable to supply the rations with several billion dollars at its disposal, whereas Saddam Hussein was able to maintain the programme with less than a billion dollars.

"In 2007, we asked for 3.2 billion dollars for rationing basic foodstuffs," Mohammed Hanoun, Iraq's chief of staff for the ministry of trade told al-Jazeera. "But since the prices of imported foodstuff doubled in the past year, we requested 7.2 billion dollars for this year. That request was denied."

The trade ministry is now preparing to slash the list of subsidised items by half to five basic food items, "namely flour, sugar, rice, oil, and infant milk," Hanoun said.

The imminent move will affect nearly 10 million people who depend on the rationing system. But it has already caused outrage in Baquba, 40 km northeast of Baghdad.

"The monthly food ration was the only help from the government," local grocer Ibrahim al-Ageely told IPS. "It was of great benefit for the families. The food ration consisted of two kilos of rice, sugar, soap, tea, detergent, wheat flour, lentils, chick-peas, and other items for every individual."

Another grocer said the food ration was the "life of all Iraqis; every month, Iraqis wait in queues to receive their food rations."

According to an Oxfam International report released in July this year, "60 percent (of Iraqis) currently have access to rations through the government-run Public Distribution System (PDS), down from 96 percent in 2004."

The report said that "43 percent of Iraqis suffer from absolute poverty," and that according to some estimates over half the population are now without work. "Children are hit the hardest by the decline in living standards. Child malnutrition rates have risen from 19 percent before the U.S.-led invasion in 2003 to 28 percent now."

While salaries have increased since the invasion of March 2003, they have not kept pace with the dramatic increase in the prices of food and fuel.

"My salary is 280 dollars, and I have six children," 49-year-old secondary school teacher Ali Kadhim told IPS. "The increase in my salary was neutralised by an increase in the price of food. I cannot afford to buy the foodstuffs in addition to the other necessary expenses of life."

"The high increase in food prices led people to condemn the delays in the ration every month," Salah Kadhim, an employee in the directorate-general of health for Diyala province told IPS. "The jobless just cannot afford to buy food."

"The food ration still represents a big part of the domestic budget," Muneer Lafta, a 51-year-old employee at the health directorate told IPS. Without the ration, she said, families have to go to the market. Because Iraqi families are large, usually six to 12 people, shopping for food is simply unaffordable.

"I and my wife have five boys and six girls, so the ration costs a lot when it has to be bought," 55-year-old resident Khalaf Atiya told IPS. "I cannot afford food and also other expenses like study, clothes, doctors."

People in Baquba, living with violence and joblessness for long, are now preparing for this new twist.

"No security, no food, no electricity, no trade, no services. So life is good," said one resident, who would not give his name.

Many fear the food ration cuts can spark unrest. "The government will commit a big mistake, because providing enough food ration could compensate the government's mistakes in other fields like security," a local physician told IPS. "The Iraq will now feel that he, or she, is of no value to the government."

Here`s an idea: maybe if we hadn`t embarked on this ridiculous scenario of 'making the war finance itself' by pulling in exclusively foreign, private contractors and paying them ludicrous amounts instead of using existing Iraqi firms willing to work for far less at an equal quality (if not better), maybe this wouldn`t be the crisis it`s becoming.

Viper420 · 12-31-2007, 07:28 PM

Have we really improved the lives of the Iraqi people? The Kurds, most definately yes unless Turkey gets involved too much. But for the most of the population, I don't think so. We brought them freedom but what is freedom worth if you can't feed your family or turn on the lights or get clean water? The surge provided a certain level of security by force of numbers. Is it a permanent form of security? Probably not.
This war is bleeding the US dry. Anybody have an idea as to how long we can maintain this expenditure of tax dollars?

**Hashishi** · 01-01-2008, 08:38 AM

^ Yup, it`s totally perverse. You can only keep the Shiites and Sunnis apart for so long. Hell, we all know the lengths Saddam had to go to to do it.

Not to mention that Iraq`s on the fast-track to theocracy. Before the last elections the entirety of the cabinet bar one had roots with fundamentalist Islamic parties- mostly those exiled to Iran during Saddam`s reign. Give it a decade, says I.

I`m angry enough watching the damn thing, but if my taxes were significantly involved like you guys in the States... well:

Billions of dollars for the Halliburton crew with what to show for it? Hospitals who`s drainage floods: power stations that never got into operation and have been picked apart by looters and, to cap it all, hundreds of thousands of lives lost.

Serious scar tissue, right there.

**dedbr** · 01-01-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Serious scar tissue, right there.

All they need to do is spray everybody with Agent Orange. A little defoliation never hurt anybody......well, some......OK, everybody it touched......

Wait a minute, they don't have anything over there to defoliate.....

Ok, scratch that........

Some Where In Ded Land............

Viper420 · 01-01-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hashishi

^ Yup, it`s totally perverse. You can only keep the Shiites and Sunnis apart for so long. Hell, we all know the lengths Saddam had to go to to do it.

Not to mention that Iraq`s on the fast-track to theocracy. Before the last elections the entirety of the cabinet bar one had roots with fundamentalist Islamic parties- mostly those exiled to Iran during Saddam`s reign. Give it a decade, says I.

I`m angry enough watching the damn thing, but if my taxes were significantly involved like you guys in the States... well:

Billions of dollars for the Halliburton crew with what to show for it? Hospitals who`s drainage floods: power stations that never got into operation and have been picked apart by looters and, to cap it all, hundreds of thousands of lives lost.

Serious scar tissue, right there.

Not to mention the ungodly amount of money they are spending on the new US Embassy. It covers 120 acres along the Tigres River (it was a park before we seized it). Over 21 buildings, the facility will have its own water supply and sewage treatment facility. They will have their own power grid and all the buildings will be built to withstand mortar attacks. When its done, it will be the biggest embassy in the world. Guess that means we aren't going anywhere any time soon.

S2 · 01-08-2008, 04:25 PM

Saddam provided more food to the Iraqis than the US-- No. That is not so. (edit) you know what- maybe that is so, Saddam ruled for 30 years or more--something like that- so yeah, he prolly did provide more food to the Iraqis than the US)

Much as folks may want to view this as another Bush failure, this news is indicative of the considerable progress being made in Iraq.

Reasons for the proposed cuts: Prosperity and increased liberty.

The Iraqi government has been planning to eliminate or limit the scope of the program for quite some time since it was developed in response to the UN sanctions prior to the war. The Saddam era program, riddled with corruption, favoritsm, and prone to abuse, has abysmally failed to satisfy the basic needs of Iraqis. The Ministry cites bottlenecks that have in most months resulted in deliveries that are substantially less than the country’s needs. But many Iraqi officials, esepcially Sunnis, have resisted scraping the program altogether, fearing a public backlash.

Currently all Iraqis qualify for the program. Families of Cabinet ministers, legislators, businessmen, wealthy traders and better paid government employees currently get rations and would likely lose them under a plan that will not be finalized for 6 more months. The Finance Ministry indicated it plans to eliminate well-off families from receiving rations. The Ministry's goal is the removal of well off Iraqis to give more resources and freedom to help other people in real need. Currently, many Iraqi children are suffering from malnutrition while wealthy Iraqis consume or resell free food provided them under the ration program. The Finance Ministry also said an extra US$200 million was added to the original US$3 billion budget allocated for next year to offset any possible increase in foodstuff prices in international markets.

Additionally, Iraq recieves substantial UN humaitarian food aid and the US spent over $200 million in food aid in 2006 and 2007 and is planning on at least the same in 2008.

Oh and by the way-- No one in Iraq can import grain except the government. That is about to change -- coincidental to the changes in the rationing program

The change in the food rationing system was planned in conjunction with the Iraqi Agriculture Ministry who plans to phase out next year its decades old state monopoly over the import of wheat and rice and allow the private sector to enter the market to improve deliveries of basic commodities.

For thousands of years, Iraq was a food exporter. But as oil became a larger part of the economy, agriculture was neglected. Now, for the first time in half a century, Iraq is exporting food. Agriculture has come back big time, mainly because many of the regulations government bureaucrats have piled on farmers for decades, have been eliminated. A farmer can now make a lot of money, growing food in the most productive agricultural land in the region

The Iraqi government is transitioning out of the food business and converting its sanction-era food ration program to a need based system for the poor and market system for the rest of the country.

Other interesting tid bits from Iraq:

Iraq has the fastest growing economy in the world. Increases in GDP for the next five years: 16.8, 13.6, 12.5, 7.8, and 7.2.

On an index of political freedom for countries in the Middle East, Iraq now ranks fourth, just below Israel, Lebanon, and Morocco.

Crude oil production reached 2.14 million barrels a day (MBD) in April of this year. It had dropped to 0.3 MBD in May of 2003.

Revenues from oil export have increased from pre-war levels of $0.2 billion, to $0.62 billion.

Electrical output exceeds the pre-war level overall, but is still slightly lower in bagdhad.

The unemployment rate in June of 2003 was 50-60%, and in April of this year it had dropped to 25-40%
.
Countries other than the U.S., plus the World Bank and IMF, have pledged over $29 billion in reconstruction aid to Iraq.

In May 2003 there were no trained judges, but as of October 2005 there were 351.

Since last Fall, over fifty U.S. bases have been transferred to Iraqi control. American troops are moving to larger, consolidated, bases out in the countryside. These require fewer troops to defend, and keep U.S. troops out of sight. Iraqi soldiers and police are taking care of security in many areas where American used to do it. This is why you keep hearing reports of plans to pull most American troops out of Iraq in the next 12-18 months.

Over 1.2 million refugess have returned to Iraq, most of the them Kurds and Shia Arabs.

Iraqi has gone from police state, to media madhouse, in three years. Under Saddam, media was tightly controlled with one state televsion station, one state radio station and one state newspaper. Terhe are now hundreds of newspapers, magazines, radio and TV stations-- not to mention bloggers.

More hospitals and schools are open and operating than ever before.

There's more.

It may suck to not be able to nail Bush to the floor with the state of things in Iraq-- but IMO, its time to wish for success for the Iraqis and celebrate progress in the hopes that they have an opportunity for self determination and progress.

Lets take the lessons we learned from the folly of our entry into that war and apply it to the future to attempt to hold our government accountable, but lets also bet on and will success for the Iraqis who deserve a friggin break after the past 5 years of war and decades of oppression under Saddam. Abandoning them now might give a warm and fuzzy "stick it to Bush and the neocons" glow, but it would screw the Iraqis and simply make them pawns of the left instead of Bush and the neocons.

(there's about 500,000 square miles of forestedland in Iraq and almost as much plantation and orchard land)

**Hashishi** · 01-09-2008, 04:06 AM

^ What`s this all about, then?

Quote:

The report said that "43 percent of Iraqis suffer from absolute poverty," and that according to some estimates over half the population are now without work. "(...) Child malnutrition rates have risen from 19 percent before the U.S.-led invasion in 2003 to 28 percent now."

While salaries have increased since the invasion of March 2003, they have not kept pace with the dramatic increase in the prices of food and fuel.

Viper420 · 01-09-2008, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hashishi

^ What`s this all about, then?

But they're FREE!!! We saved them from a dictator. Let's get out the marching bands and celebrate the fact that our efforts have allowed them to starve in freedom and drink the dirty water of liberty.

S2 · 01-09-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hashishi

^ What`s this all about, then?

Um, well that is an excerpt from a report that gives some credence to the good idea of changing this program is what that is all about.

IN light of those data, doesn't it seem appropriate to stop giving free/subsidized food to those who can afford to buy their own and encourage the agricultural sector so there is local food supply supporting the local economy and less need to send money out of the country for grain?? Could some agricultural sector jobs maybe help with the unemployment situation? could increased Iraqi demand for farm equipment not help provide economic incentive for manufactuing investment/jobs?

this is a county trying to transition out of a corrupt centralized control economy and years of war. Ending centralized rationing programs to those no longer in need is a positive step in that transition.

I'm not saying there isn't much still to be done. I'm not saying that most Iraqis are in a good place income and foodwise. I'm saying the insinuation that the needy and hungry will be cut off by this revamping of the food rationing program is not valid and limiting the reason for the change to high costs of the program ignores the other more postive reasons for the revision of the program-- namely that some are doing well enough that they don't need it and things have settled down militarily in many areas to the point that focus on things like developing the agricultural sector can be worked on.

One would do well to try to determine if the major complainers are those recieving free food and don't need it and/or Sunnis, who are more likely to have much more negative perceptions and opinions than non sunnis as can be seen in the many poll results coming out of Iraq.

The situation in Iraq sucks for most Iraqis and its not helpful to bias things in a manner that focuses on the most negative interpretation of events or blatantly misrepresents positives as negatives. Sure, harp on the costs to the Iraqis for the war and how much better off they'd be had it never occurred. There's plenty to go on there. but the Iraqis know one thing-- what is so, is so, and working towards the future is the only thing that is going to help them going forward. The Iraqis need investment, support and encouragement, not emphasis on or exaggerations of how bad their difficult situation is. Its never going to be march 2003 again and things are as they are-- we can bitch or we can try to help.

Viper420 · 01-10-2008, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S2

Um, well that is an excerpt from a report that gives some credence to the good idea of changing this program is what that is all about.

IN light of those data, doesn't it seem appropriate to stop giving free/subsidized food to those who can afford to buy their own and encourage the agricultural sector so there is local food supply supporting the local economy and less need to send money out of the country for grain?? Could some agricultural sector jobs maybe help with the unemployment situation? could increased Iraqi demand for farm equipment not help provide economic incentive for manufactuing investment/jobs?

this is a county trying to transition out of a corrupt centralized control economy and years of war. Ending centralized rationing programs to those no longer in need is a positive step in that transition.

I'm not saying there isn't much still to be done. I'm not saying that most Iraqis are in a good place income and foodwise. I'm saying the insinuation that the needy and hungry will be cut off by this revamping of the food rationing program is not valid and limiting the reason for the change to high costs of the program ignores the other more postive reasons for the revision of the program-- namely that some are doing well enough that they don't need it and things have settled down militarily in many areas to the point that focus on things like developing the agricultural sector can be worked on.

One would do well to try to determine if the major complainers are those recieving free food and don't need it and/or Sunnis, who are more likely to have much more negative perceptions and opinions than non sunnis as can be seen in the many poll results coming out of Iraq.

The situation in Iraq sucks for most Iraqis and its not helpful to bias things in a manner that focuses on the most negative interpretation of events or blatantly misrepresents positives as negatives. Sure, harp on the costs to the Iraqis for the war and how much better off they'd be had it never occurred. There's plenty to go on there. but the Iraqis know one thing-- what is so, is so, and working towards the future is the only thing that is going to help them going forward. The Iraqis need investment, support and encouragement, not emphasis on or exaggerations of how bad their difficult situation is. Its never going to be march 2003 again and things are as they are-- we can bitch or we can try to help.

You forgot one more option...we can get the f**k out and let them deal with their own BS.

01-08-2008, 04:25 PM	#6
S2 Just another bonehead Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 1,096 Grams: 318.75 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 11 Thanked 24 Times in 15 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Saddam provided more food to the Iraqis than the US-- No. That is not so. (edit) you know what- maybe that is so, Saddam ruled for 30 years or more--something like that- so yeah, he prolly did provide more food to the Iraqis than the US) Much as folks may want to view this as another Bush failure, this news is indicative of the considerable progress being made in Iraq. Reasons for the proposed cuts: Prosperity and increased liberty. The Iraqi government has been planning to eliminate or limit the scope of the program for quite some time since it was developed in response to the UN sanctions prior to the war. The Saddam era program, riddled with corruption, favoritsm, and prone to abuse, has abysmally failed to satisfy the basic needs of Iraqis. The Ministry cites bottlenecks that have in most months resulted in deliveries that are substantially less than the country’s needs. But many Iraqi officials, esepcially Sunnis, have resisted scraping the program altogether, fearing a public backlash. Currently all Iraqis qualify for the program. Families of Cabinet ministers, legislators, businessmen, wealthy traders and better paid government employees currently get rations and would likely lose them under a plan that will not be finalized for 6 more months. The Finance Ministry indicated it plans to eliminate well-off families from receiving rations. The Ministry's goal is the removal of well off Iraqis to give more resources and freedom to help other people in real need. Currently, many Iraqi children are suffering from malnutrition while wealthy Iraqis consume or resell free food provided them under the ration program. The Finance Ministry also said an extra US$200 million was added to the original US$3 billion budget allocated for next year to offset any possible increase in foodstuff prices in international markets. Additionally, Iraq recieves substantial UN humaitarian food aid and the US spent over $200 million in food aid in 2006 and 2007 and is planning on at least the same in 2008. Oh and by the way-- No one in Iraq can import grain except the government. That is about to change -- coincidental to the changes in the rationing program The change in the food rationing system was planned in conjunction with the Iraqi Agriculture Ministry who plans to phase out next year its decades old state monopoly over the import of wheat and rice and allow the private sector to enter the market to improve deliveries of basic commodities. For thousands of years, Iraq was a food exporter. But as oil became a larger part of the economy, agriculture was neglected. Now, for the first time in half a century, Iraq is exporting food. Agriculture has come back big time, mainly because many of the regulations government bureaucrats have piled on farmers for decades, have been eliminated. A farmer can now make a lot of money, growing food in the most productive agricultural land in the region The Iraqi government is transitioning out of the food business and converting its sanction-era food ration program to a need based system for the poor and market system for the rest of the country. Other interesting tid bits from Iraq: Iraq has the fastest growing economy in the world. Increases in GDP for the next five years: 16.8, 13.6, 12.5, 7.8, and 7.2. On an index of political freedom for countries in the Middle East, Iraq now ranks fourth, just below Israel, Lebanon, and Morocco. Crude oil production reached 2.14 million barrels a day (MBD) in April of this year. It had dropped to 0.3 MBD in May of 2003. Revenues from oil export have increased from pre-war levels of $0.2 billion, to $0.62 billion. Electrical output exceeds the pre-war level overall, but is still slightly lower in bagdhad. The unemployment rate in June of 2003 was 50-60%, and in April of this year it had dropped to 25-40% . Countries other than the U.S., plus the World Bank and IMF, have pledged over $29 billion in reconstruction aid to Iraq. In May 2003 there were no trained judges, but as of October 2005 there were 351. Since last Fall, over fifty U.S. bases have been transferred to Iraqi control. American troops are moving to larger, consolidated, bases out in the countryside. These require fewer troops to defend, and keep U.S. troops out of sight. Iraqi soldiers and police are taking care of security in many areas where American used to do it. This is why you keep hearing reports of plans to pull most American troops out of Iraq in the next 12-18 months. Over 1.2 million refugess have returned to Iraq, most of the them Kurds and Shia Arabs. Iraqi has gone from police state, to media madhouse, in three years. Under Saddam, media was tightly controlled with one state televsion station, one state radio station and one state newspaper. Terhe are now hundreds of newspapers, magazines, radio and TV stations-- not to mention bloggers. More hospitals and schools are open and operating than ever before. There's more. It may suck to not be able to nail Bush to the floor with the state of things in Iraq-- but IMO, its time to wish for success for the Iraqis and celebrate progress in the hopes that they have an opportunity for self determination and progress. Lets take the lessons we learned from the folly of our entry into that war and apply it to the future to attempt to hold our government accountable, but lets also bet on and will success for the Iraqis who deserve a friggin break after the past 5 years of war and decades of oppression under Saddam. Abandoning them now might give a warm and fuzzy "stick it to Bush and the neocons" glow, but it would screw the Iraqis and simply make them pawns of the left instead of Bush and the neocons. (there's about 500,000 square miles of forestedland in Iraq and almost as much plantation and orchard land) Last edited by S2 : 01-08-2008 at 04:57 PM.

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12-31-2007, 07:28 PM	#2
Viper420 Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 843 Grams: 4,446.90 Groans: 6 Groaned at 64 Times in 40 Posts Thanks: 44 Thanked 130 Times in 115 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Have we really improved the lives of the Iraqi people? The Kurds, most definately yes unless Turkey gets involved too much. But for the most of the population, I don't think so. We brought them freedom but what is freedom worth if you can't feed your family or turn on the lights or get clean water? The surge provided a certain level of security by force of numbers. Is it a permanent form of security? Probably not. This war is bleeding the US dry. Anybody have an idea as to how long we can maintain this expenditure of tax dollars?

01-01-2008, 08:38 AM	#3
Hashishi Unf*ckwit'able Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,875 Grams: 21,658.35 Groans: 3 Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts Thanks: 712 Thanked 858 Times in 503 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	^ Yup, it`s totally perverse. You can only keep the Shiites and Sunnis apart for so long. Hell, we all know the lengths Saddam had to go to to do it. Not to mention that Iraq`s on the fast-track to theocracy. Before the last elections the entirety of the cabinet bar one had roots with fundamentalist Islamic parties- mostly those exiled to Iran during Saddam`s reign. Give it a decade, says I. I`m angry enough watching the damn thing, but if my taxes were significantly involved like you guys in the States... well: Billions of dollars for the Halliburton crew with what to show for it? Hospitals who`s drainage floods: power stations that never got into operation and have been picked apart by looters and, to cap it all, hundreds of thousands of lives lost. Serious scar tissue, right there.

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