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Andrew87 · 02-02-2008, 10:10 AM

Berkeley City Council Votes Against U.S. Marine's Presence In City | February 2, 2008 | AHN

Quote:

Berkeley City Council Votes Against U.S. Marine's Presence In City

February 1, 2008 11:26 a.m. EST

Julie Farby - AHN Reporter

Berkeley, CA (AHN)-In a 6-3 vote, the Berkeley City Council has ruled that the U.S. Marines recruiting center is not welcome in the city due to their discriminatory policy against gays and lesbians in the military.

The council also voted by a margin of 8-1 to allow Code Pink, an advocacy group for peace, to protest the Marine's presence in the liberal California town because of its "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy on sexual orientation.

The City Council ruled that Code Pink was not only free to protest against the military recruiting station, but would also be provided with a designated parking space once a week for the next six months, as well as a sound permit for rallying against the center from noon to 4 pm.

After the City Council voted in favor of the rights group and against the U.S. Marines' current recruitment policy, Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates, said, "I believe in the Code Pink cause. The Marines don't belong here, they shouldn't have come here, and they should leave."

A spokesperson for the Marines declined to comment.

If Berkeley can vote the Marines out of the city, I wonder if this means the rest of the country can vote Berkeley out of the U.S.

**troublemaker_42** · 02-06-2008, 08:32 AM

I agree with Berkelys standpoint almost as much as I agree that we should "vote out" any city who enacts legislation that doesn't reflect my personal political viewpoints. Fighting stupidity with further stuipid behavior only promotes....well.... more stupidity. You don't have to LIKE what Berkley has done, and I don't, but that doesn't mean we should just "vote them out of the country" because they did something we didn't like. If it were that easy, we'd have "voted out" Bush quite some time ago. When you have an approval rating in the low 30's, its obvious the majority no longer have confidence in your leadership, so does that mean we shoud enact a new law allowing us to "vote him out"?

Swabeky · 02-06-2008, 03:16 PM

Heres the officer's response

[/quote]

I don't think they differentiate between branches, and it's clear they don't understand that different recruiting offices might perform different functions (see below). Any baby-killer will probably do.

A letter from the Berkeley recruiter, Captain Richard Lund, to Code Pink from back in October via the Berkeley Daily Planet:

Quote:

While the protest that you staged in front of my office on Wednesday, Sept. 26th, was an exercise of your constitutional rights, the messages that you left behind were insulting, untrue, and ultimately misdirected. Additionally, from the comments quoted in the Berkeley Daily Planet article, it is clear that you have no idea what it is that I do here. Given that I was unaware of your planned protest, I was unable to contest your claims in person, so I will therefore address them here.

First, a little bit about who I am: I am a Marine captain with over eight years of service as a commissioned officer. I flew transport helicopters for most of my time in the Marine Corps before requesting orders to come here. Currently, I am the officer selection officer for the northern Bay Area. My job is to recruit, interview, screen, and evaluate college students and college graduates that show an interest in becoming officers in the Marine Corps. Once they’ve committed to pursuing this program, I help them apply, and if selected, I help them prepare for the rigors of Officer Candidate School and for the challenges of life as a Marine officer. To be eligible for my programs, you have to be either a full-time college student or a college graduate. I don’t pull anyone out of school, and high school students are not eligible.

I moved my office to Berkeley in December of last year. Previously, it was located in an old federal building in Alameda. That building was due to be torn down and I had to find a new location. I choose our new site because of its proximity to UC Berkeley and to the BART station. Most of the candidates in my program either go to Cal or to one of the schools in San Francisco, the East Bay, or the North Bay. Logistically, the Shattuck Square location was the most convenient for them.

Next, you claim that I lie. I have never, and will never, lie to any individual that shows an interest in my programs. I am upfront with everything that is involved at every step of the way and I go out of my way to ensure that they know what to expect when they apply. I tell them that this is not an easy path. I tell them that leading Marines requires a great deal of self-sacrifice. I tell them that, should they succeed in their quest to become a Marine officer, they will almost certainly go to Iraq. In the future, if you plan to attack my integrity, please have the courtesy to explain to me specifically the instances in which you think that I lied.

Next, scrawled across the doorway to my office, you wrote, “Recruiters are Traitors.” Please explain this one. How exactly am I a traitor? Was I a traitor when I joined the Marine Corps all those years ago? Is every Marine, therefore, a traitor? Was I a traitor during my two stints in Iraq? Was I a traitor when I was delivering humanitarian aid to the victims of the tsunami in Sumatra? Or do you only consider me a traitor while I am on this job? The fact is, recruitment is and always has been a part of maintaining any military organization. In fact, recruitment is a necessity of any large organization. Large corporations have employees that recruit full-time. Even you, I’m sure, must expend some effort to recruit for Code Pink. So what, exactly, is it that makes me a traitor?

The fact is this: any independent nation must maintain a military (or be allied with those who do) to ensure the safety and security of its citizens. Regardless of what your opinions are of the current administration or the current conflict in Iraq, the U.S. military will be needed again in the future. If your counter-recruitment efforts are ultimately successful, who will defend us if we are directly attacked again as we were at Pearl Harbor? Who would respond if a future terrorist attack targets the Golden Gate Bridge, the BART system, or the UC Berkeley clock tower? And, to address the most hypocritical stance that your organization takes on its website, where would the peace keeping force come from that you advocate sending to Darfur?

Finally, I believe that your efforts in protesting my office are misdirected. I agree that your stated goals of peace and social justice are worthy ones. War is a terrible thing that should only be undertaken in the most dire, extreme, and necessary of circumstances. However, war is made by politicians. The conflict in Iraq was ordered by the president and authorized by Congress. They are the ones who have the power to change the policy in Iraq, not members of the military. We execute policy to the best of our ability and to the best of our human capacity. Protesting in front of my office may be an easy way to get your organization in the headlines of local papers, but it doesn’t further any of your stated goals.

To conclude, I don’t consider myself a “recruiter.” I am a Marine who happens to be on recruiting duty. As such, I conduct myself in accordance with our core values of honor, courage, and commitment. I will never sacrifice my honor by lying to anyone that walks into my office. I will never forsake the courage that it takes to restrain myself in the face of insulting and libelous labels like liar and traitor. And, most importantly, I will never waver from my commitment to helping individuals who desire to serve their country as officers in the Marine Corps.

Berkeley Daily Planet

I am in full support of the Marines. If the Military cannot recruit people from higher classes and from higher institutions then the military will not reflect the general population. I think it's a shame so many higher institutions (especially the elite ones) do not let Officer recruiters work. as the letter states they aren't recruiting privates, they want officers and to be an officer you have to make an effort, not the recruiter.

Andrew87 · 02-07-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by troublemaker_42:

I agree with Berkelys standpoint almost as much as I agree that we should "vote out" any city who enacts legislation that doesn't reflect my personal political viewpoints. Fighting stupidity with further stuipid behavior only promotes....well.... more stupidity. You don't have to LIKE what Berkley has done, and I don't, but that doesn't mean we should just "vote them out of the country" because they did something we didn't like. If it were that easy, we'd have "voted out" Bush quite some time ago. When you have an approval rating in the low 30's, its obvious the majority no longer have confidence in your leadership, so does that mean we shoud enact a new law allowing us to "vote him out"?

You need to get your sarcasm detector tuned up.

**troublemaker_42** · 02-07-2008, 10:51 AM

Just because I didn't agree with a sarcastic comment doesn't mean I didn't recognize the sarcasm.

Andrew87 · 02-07-2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Just because I didn't agree with a sarcastic comment doesn't mean I didn't recognize the sarcasm.

The point is that I was joking, yet you responded as if I had meant it literally. Lighten up.

Oh well, based on what I have seen of the content of your other posts, this seems to be fairly common with you.

Buzzby · 02-07-2008, 07:55 PM

Legislative bodies frequently pass resolutions expressing their collective opinion but which do not have the force of law. This is just another one of them. For the most part, the people of Berkeley, one of the most liberal cities in the nation, would prefer not to have military recruiters operating in their city.

I find it hard to believe that the recruiters would be able to successfully meet their quotas in Berkeley. It's kind of like opening a lemonade stand at the North Pole.

SacredJellybean · 02-08-2008, 02:59 AM

Quote:

I find it hard to believe that the recruiters would be able to successfully meet their quotas in Berkeley. It's kind of like opening a lemonade stand at the North Pole.

To be fair,

Quote:

I moved my office to Berkeley in December of last year. Previously, it was located in an old federal building in Alameda. That building was due to be torn down and I had to find a new location. I choose our new site because of its proximity to UC Berkeley and to the BART station. Most of the candidates in my program either go to Cal or to one of the schools in San Francisco, the East Bay, or the North Bay. Logistically, the Shattuck Square location was the most convenient for them.

So, uh, his response was well and good, and I agree that the people in the military are only following orders to the best of their ability (and hence shouldn't be the focal point of protests from those who oppose the war), but he didn't mention the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy or gay rights at all.

Gays should be allowed in the military, though. Like the great Bill Hicks says...

"You never see my attitude in the press, that's what bugs me, you never see my point of view. For instance, gays in the military... Here's how I feel about it. Anyone dumb enough to wanna be in the military should be allowed in. End of fucking story. That should be the only requirement. I don't care how many push-ups you can do, put on a helmet, go and wait in that foxhole, we'll tell you when we need you to kill somebody. You know what I mean... I'm so sick... I've watched all the fucking Congressional hearings, and all these military guys and all the pundits 'oh the espirit de core will be affected, and we are such a moral...' Excuse me, aren't y'all just fucking hired killers?! Shut up! You are thugs and we need you to go blow the fuck out of a nation of little brown people, we'll let you know! (imitating military officer) 'I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm killing people... I just don't wanna see it!'"

t-1000 · 02-08-2008, 05:31 AM

did I read that quote right? are you saying that military personnel are nothing but honorless murderers? A nation of little brown people? what like the japanese? That has got to be the absolute most pathetic show of ingratitude and disrespect I have seen in a long time.

truly delusional and sickening. i would make an argument against the statements, but trying to convince anyone who truly thinks like that would obviously be an exercise in futility. one day you might be forced to defend your country and experience first hand the sacrifice that others were willing to give freely

**troublemaker_42** · 02-08-2008, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew87

The point is that I was joking, yet you responded as if I had meant it literally. Lighten up.

Oh well, based on what I have seen of the content of your other posts, this seems to be fairly common with you.

Actually, you were seemed quite upset that Berekely dare do such a thing. I found your reaction to be rather humorous, as anyone who knows anything about the city of Berkely wouldn't be the least bit suprised by this. Its a lberal hotbed, and has been for years. You seemed upset that they dared to pass such a resolution, whether it carried any force of law or not (which it doesn't). Your appearent anger with this resolution merely amused me. You claim to be joking, yet its quite obvious you were disgusted by the vote, or you never would have posted it.

As for my other posts, thats neither here nor there. I see you can't concentrate on the post at hand and need to make personal comments instead. I'm sure you could find several points I've made that you agree with, as well as many you do not, if you care to read my nearly 10,000 posts that I've contributed here. Hell, you might even find a few where I missed some sarcasm. However, this wasn't one of them. I merely was entertained by how upset you seemed over something that would be of no suprise to anyone who knows the history of Berkley. Instead of worrying about my other posts, lets focus on the topic at hand. Shouldn't be too hard for you....after all, you were the one who started tthe thread.

If you would rather continue making comments of a personal nature regarding my posts, use the PM feature.

02-06-2008, 08:32 AM	#2
troublemaker_42 May be habit forming Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 10,897 Grams: 19,472.87 Groans: 159 Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts Thanks: 1,057 Thanked 1,788 Times in 955 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	I agree with Berkelys standpoint almost as much as I agree that we should "vote out" any city who enacts legislation that doesn't reflect my personal political viewpoints. Fighting stupidity with further stuipid behavior only promotes....well.... more stupidity. You don't have to LIKE what Berkley has done, and I don't, but that doesn't mean we should just "vote them out of the country" because they did something we didn't like. If it were that easy, we'd have "voted out" Bush quite some time ago. When you have an approval rating in the low 30's, its obvious the majority no longer have confidence in your leadership, so does that mean we shoud enact a new law allowing us to "vote him out"? __________________ Remember you're a wreck, an accident forget the freak, you're just nature Keep the gun oiled and the temple clean shit, snort and blaspheme Let the heads cool and the engine run Because in the end, everything we do is just everything we've done..."Omega" by StoneSour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politic...ma#Gun_control www.sportsmenforObama.org Last edited by troublemaker_42 : 02-06-2008 at 09:28 AM.

02-07-2008, 07:55 PM	#7
Buzzby Buddhist Curmudgeon Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 14,189 Grams: 42,808.74 Groans: 33 Groaned at 42 Times in 35 Posts Thanks: 486 Thanked 3,549 Times in 1,790 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Legislative bodies frequently pass resolutions expressing their collective opinion but which do not have the force of law. This is just another one of them. For the most part, the people of Berkeley, one of the most liberal cities in the nation, would prefer not to have military recruiters operating in their city. I find it hard to believe that the recruiters would be able to successfully meet their quotas in Berkeley. It's kind of like opening a lemonade stand at the North Pole. __________________ McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time. Do we really want four more years of the same old shit? ~ Buzzby, 08/31/2008 Theocracy Watch

02-08-2008, 05:31 AM	#9
t-1000 Sr. Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 765 Grams: 4,504.56 Groans: 2 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post Thanks: 39 Thanked 68 Times in 45 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	did I read that quote right? are you saying that military personnel are nothing but honorless murderers? A nation of little brown people? what like the japanese? That has got to be the absolute most pathetic show of ingratitude and disrespect I have seen in a long time. truly delusional and sickening. i would make an argument against the statements, but trying to convince anyone who truly thinks like that would obviously be an exercise in futility. one day you might be forced to defend your country and experience first hand the sacrifice that others were willing to give freely __________________ "i am looking for a way to get some weed into japan to chill with some friends. I am underage so i dont care if i get caught."

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02-07-2008, 10:51 AM	#5
troublemaker_42 May be habit forming Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 10,897 Grams: 19,472.87 Groans: 159 Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts Thanks: 1,057 Thanked 1,788 Times in 955 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Just because I didn't agree with a sarcastic comment doesn't mean I didn't recognize the sarcasm.

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