Marijuana.com

ch1c4go

Hi

what i am trying to do here is open a dialogue concerning the harm/benefit of our drug laws on every level.

at the very basic level, what is the reason drugs are illegal? people believe making some thing "evil" like drugs illegal is theonly course of action... but its not.

what do they call it when you are arrested for drugs? possesion of a **controlled* substance.

at what point do our laws excercise control over the substance?

the drugs are all handled by criminal organizations that prey on the weakness of our government (police, port authority, dea, politicians, etc..)
who only stand to profit from them remaining illegal.

the narcotics importer bribes authorities or through some path controls the people allowing into the country, making for higher "tariffs" on the product.

this only creates a more lucrative market on a nnational scale. the violence and risk involved is as a result of what?

it being illegal. these dangerous people would not be doing this if drugs were truly controlled by the government.

on a regional level- these are the people getting the packages on a regional level to distribute to other middle men around the country. at this level the profit jumps drastically as well because you can cut your product to make it more profitable...

so now you have drastic profit to be made by reducing the purity and safety of the product as people have no guarantee of potency and the fillers can cause health problems, especially if injected.

then you take it down another level to the drug dealers in our community that desal directly with our young drug community. these people have to pay extravagent prices for these substances that can cause a health problem, addiction, whose root problem is a chemical defiencey,. resulting in addiciton, which then causes, according to the national authority on drugs, compulsive drug seeking behaviors. what route is taken to get their drugs?

forst you have to have money. where do you get your money at?

eventually you wont work ebnoguh or be able to work to support your habit so you steal or sell drugs.





amount of money spent on "war on drugs"-

percent of prison pop. for drugs or drug related crime (theft, violence fom selling it, etc)

police resources wasted that could be used pursuing tru dangers to society


street crime would be reduced if drugs were legal and could be obtained at an effective potency in premeasured doses to prevent overdose-

overdose deaths would be lowered to the rate from other prescribed drugs..

no drug dealers

our kids would not conform to a culture surrounding drugs which leads them into crime.

the only people who would stand to lose anything from the legalization of drugs would be the drug dealers, so they bribe politicians, police and others to create their own market,

the drug market is structured in much the same way the legal market is. the taxes are very high because they pay for police bribes, smuggling mehtods, and a variety of other things that would not exist if drugs were legal.


principally, druigs need to be controlled, but to do this they cannot be illegal. wrong though path.

basically i think the government needs to be the nations drug dealer, and society would profit from this.

what do you think?

[Mod note: Cross-posting violation. Please review the Posting Guidelines. Warning issued.]

 

ch1c4go

name one problem associated with drugs- and how legalization will worsen it PLEASE

Hashishi

I can think of absolutely none. Prohibition by default excludes any and all strategies of harm reduction. It places one of the top (three or four?) global markets solely in the hands of criminals. In an age where security tops the international agenda this is phenomenally backwards.

That`s pretty much a reiteration of your argument. Well said, that man - I`m in total agreement.

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ch1c4go

i believe this can be uswed as a prime example of how our system of government needs to evolve too.

its clear to anyone who thinks what the better option would be between legalization and criminilization- but our officials are not making decisions based on their own beliefs. the prime influence here? ,money.. see where im going with this?

drugs=money=power

so, remove the money aspect, and you simply have a substance that is invaluable to its users but worth nothing to anyone else, right?


i believe this is one of the most derstructive problems n society, and it syas alot about our society in that there are people who vote and help make decisions, who dont know what they are talking about, who believe drugs being illegal is a negative thing to drug dealers, when in fact the laws support them.

a large part of the public is misled, our officials are paid off. whree does the corruption come to an end?

legalization

im sorry if i am rambling about this but it seems that if drugs were made legal, the trillions spent on the war on drugs, to house its prisoners, and police salary, not to mention the manpower that is wasted, the lives that are destroyed.
supporting our current drug policy is not only detrimental to society, but immoral.

Andrew87

Just because they wouldn't be able to take part in the drug trade doesn't mean they will stop being criminals. They will simply turn to other rackets.

Nevertheless, from a theoretical standpoint, we agree.


Agreed....


I think you would be surprised to find that many prescription drugs actually have higher overdose rates than illicit substances - painkillers in particular:

Prescription Pain Killers Are Involved In More Drug Overdose Deaths Than Either Cocaine Or Heroin In U.S.

Agreed...

I think (if outright legalization ever were to happen) it would be better handled by private organizations - with limited and reasonable government safeguards.

The government is enough of a self-serving entity as it is, the last thing it needs is control over the highly profitable drug trade.

I can think of one potential (and probable) drawback - drug use will increase dramatically. Now, for substances like marijuana, this is no big deal - but I know I sure don't want meth or heroin use becoming even more prevalent than it already is.

The root of the problem lies in that a large proportion of people tend to place far more trust in the government than they should. Think about this: how many people do you know who believe that marijuana and other illegal drugs are the root of all evil, but have no problem whatsoever drinking alcohol or smoking cigarettes? In my experience, I've found that this hatred and/or fear has little to do with legality and much more to do with the government's (and much of society's) condemnation. Eliminate this negative perception by legalizing ALL drugs and you will have people thinking that there are few if any downsides to smoking meth or injecting heroin - because the government told them it was OK.

As much as I support the thought of limited government control over drugs, it seems like nothing more than a utopian ideal given our current (sad) state of affairs.

Despite your impeccable use of the transitive property, I don't think this issue is as cut and dried as that.

__________________
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Viper420

I'm perfectly happy with some of our drug laws just as they are. Certain drugs should be under the strict control of a doctor. 10 year olds shouldn't be smoking crystal meth or crack. That statement is one that everyone should agree to. And the people who would sell those drugs to a 10 year old need to be punished. You really need to seperate the drug laws. This forum pretty much deals with MJ, a drug with no own record of one OD. A lot of people make the mistake of lumping all drugs into one bunch and thats really a fools journey. You'll NEVER get all drugs legalized. America and the rest of the world isn't that stupid. You can work to legalize MJ due to its harmless nature but when you ask people to legalize crystal meth or some other powdery substance, they're going to laugh at you and rightfully so.

Viper420

Legalize MJ only. Don't even bother to try and get anyone to listen to an arguement to legalize "hard drugs". Might as well get a magic marker and write crazy on your forehead beforehand so people will know where you're coming from. No one would allow cocaine or meth to be sold openly. Heres an idea. Increase the penalty for "hard drug" possession to an undetermined stay at a prison hospital. You wouldn't be able to leave until they (the doctors) determined that you were cured. The dealers would be a diferent story. 5 years for the first offence (dealing). Second offence, life (20 years no parole) or worse. Make it so bad that only a dumbass would want to sell drugs.

ch1c4go

you have to open your mind a little more than that-

legal vs illegal is not as simple as right and wrong;

making drugs illegal enables drug dealing, crime, and destruction in society, creating the drug community as it exists today, which i personally have been witness to as i have been addicted to drugs for years.
the problem here is people think
"if something is wrong (or causing harm) it should be illegal" (not as simple as that, but let me continue with this i have a valid point)
but what is it that makes making it illegal the immediate option?
the flawed logic in our peoples brainwashed, warped (?) minds.

the drug laws were implemented under a controlled substances act.
principally, it sounds like a good, logical plan right?

but the content of this act is completely irrational,as evident in modern society. completely inneffective. to truly make them controlled, you have to take control, meaning take tyhe drugs out of the hands of the richest criminals in america and let companys distribute them legally.



i also think drug use would only slightly increase, if that;



i know the reasons i started using drugs, and one of the,,as it iis with most young people, was partly a desire to conform to a community if people and to be accepted.
if drugs were legal, ,like cigerettes and alcohol, i would still have done them. bottom line is the motivations for drug use (obviously) lie within the user. we as a country tend to attack the symptoms of our promblems instead of finding the root of them and solving them.
i cant say definitely, knowing the risks, i would ever have tried heroin if it was legal. probably i would have.
but most of my influence came from the people i got my drugs from who eventually became my drug buddies- you all know how it goes.

i tried cocaine with these people, heroin, ecstasy- and if these drugs were legally marketed, i know the surrounding curcumstances would have been different regarding they way i tried it.

really,i think if a young person wants to try drugs, they will. some are deterred by the criminal element, but many many more are excited by the danger and risk, and how this cann affect others opinions of them. the people surrounding them will definitely not discourage crime.
so really, among young users, i think it would only be a slight to moderate increase, evening out in about 8 years when these kids are mature enough.
will this lead to an increase in addiction in the current generation?
maybe.

what is exactly so wrong with being a drug addict, exactly?

if your drugs are safe, legal, and cheap (or free) all the harm is brought specifi9cally on the user themselves, and that would be minimalized because they would be taking prescribed drugs of a reliable, standard purity which would be regulated by companys (and the FDA, as much as i hate them)


also, noone has said anything about how much money is involved. look at the percent of our prison population that is there for drugs.
i believe its over 30 which sounds crazy, if im wrong let me know..


we could cut it in a third( more?), reducing costs to our government, and eventually to the taxpayers.
guard to prisoner ratio would mean prisons would lose jobs, so this is one negative effect of legalization. this however can be countered with the jobs created in drug production.

ch1c4go

true, but these other rackets dont have direct aths into the lives of our children, do they?
when i was 13 and 14 i got my drugs from criminals, associated with criminals, commited crimes (for money, for drugs)
got arrested, sent away etc...

i would never have associated with these people, and most of the people i knew thatwere involved wouldnt have either if the drugs were to be found elsewhere


2 points you brought up here are kind of misled- let me explain
the people who thnk cigs and alcohol are okay cause theyre legal are a very narrow minded people.
you have to not think of it as "legal" as in "ok", but think of legality as a tool to reduce harm
words are only words, and legality is a state. nothing makes something in that state OK, it just makes it in that state. right?

i understand your trying to sya here that there is something wrong with smoking meth and shooting heroin, but if these two were elgal and a safe, medical method of administration was used, which is as effective as (smoking, injecting) other methods,
then what would be the harm? this persons dysfunction in society?

they would then ahve to seek treatment so they could handle their addiction, or stop completely.
but then the problem would be we would have a bunch of addicts- not a bunch of addicts, living on the streets, stealing and draining society. just addicts.
i know my idea isnt perfect, but it would definitely improve upon our current state, right?


drugs cost moneuy, so it really works i the opposite way. in an addicts mind ->
get money to get drugs to get high

money = drugs

on a higher level people use the drugs to gain profit so if they get good cheap durgs, they can boost the price dramatically, cut other substances in, and dramatically increasde profit

therefore, drugs = money

the power aspect has othing to do with drugs,

do you agree
money = power?

Andrew87

I believe illicit drug use amongst adolescents is only partially motivated by the drugs themselves. The other strong factor is, as you said, the desire to deviate from societal norms and conform to a defiant counterculture. Legalizing drugs is not going to change this - it will simply redirect their primary focus.

What is so wrong with drug addicts, is that they tend to become a burden on society. Now I am not saying all addicts, and I commend any that are able to get and stay clean, but the majority bring nothing to the table. If you think legalization will change this, take a look at your typical alcoholic. Many have consistent legal and emotional problems due to their drinking. I fail to see how this would be any different with legalized hard drugs.

Which would repeat every generation...

Drinking alcohol or smoking cigarettes is considered a rite of passage for teens - do you really want to add things like coke and dope to this equation?

I would say inevitably.

It isn't just prisons that would be forced to downsize - we are talking about disbanding the entire DEA, as well as every narcotics unit in municipal police agencies - potentially tens if not hundreds of thousands of jobs. Legalization of ALL drugs will severely disorient the entire criminal justice system, this change would need to be very slow and subtle in order to prevent the unemployment rate from shooting through the roof.