klepto

Refute or agree...

My contention is that organized religion is immeasurably more destructive than constructive. No other force in history has caused as many wars, political rivalries, backward thought, and general social...for lack of a better word, retardation, that have been and continue to be a hindrance to the progress of humanity.

Even if one defends the idea of organized religion from the standpoint that it does inject "morality" into (some of) its adherents, one fails to see why this is a flawed way of thinking in the first place. organized religions teach morality largely based on a punishment avoidance/reward system...i.e. not going to hell, getting into heaven. This is pretty much how a toddler understands morality. He knows that if he hits his little sister, he will be put in time out, and thats a bad thing for him. He knows if he behaves, he will get a cookie, a good thing for him. Call me crazy, but this is not the way that i believe a majority of humans should be basing their morals. A higher level of morality occurs when the individual doesn't act based on his individual needs or desires, but realizes that acting in a civil and peaceful manner will result in a greater good for everyone.

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"I don't do drugs, I am drugs." - Salvador Dali

sterbo

I'd say that's way to broad a stroke, though all too often the case.

There have always been a small percentage of religious orders that have and do manage to be true to a modest sense of themselves: morality without duplicity and a true reverence for love.

Ultimately it's not about the organization, it's about the individual,
where hearts truly soar or flutter into chaos...
.

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ohganja420

just because the world cant handle others opinions on religion and cultures cause wars against each other doesnt mean that religion should be blamed. its the people that should be blamed for not being understanding and open minded.
just like u cant blame certain drugs for "ruining peoples lives" but u blame the person for not keeping their drug use in check.

Zocalo

Dude...You have enlightened me so much. You are completely right. I sware I never saw it that way. I know this looks like sarcasm, but it's rly not. I'm just rly high right now and can't type seriously.

Anyways, seriously, I always blamed religion, it's not religion, it's the idiots that can't support other religions! It's like, we don't blame race for wars, anymore, right? We say, we're all the same, we're finally accepting that you can be different and still be intelligent (or in the religion case, a good person).

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Yana Usdi

I think that oversimplifies the issue though in principle I don't entirely disagree. Religion played a role in a number of ugly issues through history but I think the bigger factor at play is simple human nature.

We always look for personal advantage be it for our family, our nation, race, religion, or whatever else. If it wasn't for religion maybe we'd have fought those wars over economic or other reasons but we don't seem to have a great deal of trouble finding ways and reasons to divide ourselves. Religion is just a more popular cause but that doesn't automatically mean that removing it would remove the conflict. We'd just find another excuse.

I'm not religious myself though at one point I might have been and I do wish its use in politics and other areas such as the push into the classrooms wasn't as open as it now is, it does cause some problems without doubt. But the problem in the end is more human nature, the need to divide into us vs them and to demonize the opposition.

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"Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach him to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day." -Dan Moon

Always be kind to animals, Morning, noon and night: For animals have feelings too, And furthermore, they bite. - John Gardner

Rev0lver

I agree with the OP. Almost every war has had some sort of religious cause. We let religion influence our politicians in issues such as gay marriage. And not only does religion have a negative effect on these big events or issues, but on individuals. Religion suppresses individuality and logical thinking and makes an individual want to do things because they believe it will get them into heaven. 9/11 would not have happened if the hijackers did not have their religion in mind but rather recognized the negative effects such an action would have on the world, and ultimately them. Religion caused some of the most disgusting acts of violence by the Catholic church during the middle ages, and quite possibly influenced Hitler.

Some of the most non-religious countries in the world(especially Scandinavian ones) are also some of the most peaceful and happiest countries in the world. You cannot ignore the connection.

Unriggable

Organized religion has nothing to do with it. It is always human nature. Politicians, then and now, use religion as an excuse to fight wars and do the things they do, but that doesn't mean that their basis is in religion. I think this quote from 'God's Debris' sums it up nicely:

"If you believe a truck is coming toward you, you will jump out of the way. That is belief in the reality of the truck. If you tell people you fear the truck but do nothing to get out of the way, that is not belief in the truck. Likewise, it is not belief to say God exists and then continue sinning and hoarding your wealth while innocent people die of starvation. When belief does not control your most important decisions, it is not belief in the underlying reality, it is belief in the usefulness of believing."

klepto

So you're saying that people don't really believe, they simply profess that they do in order to gain some level of personal advancement/comfort/social status/whatever. Isn't that kind of making my point for me? It makes no difference whether they truly believe in their religion or not, they are still using it as a tool to control people, and that's bad for humanity (undeniably so).

Organized religion has nothing to do with it? Can you name a concept that has a larger influencing factor on the lives of people all over the world? Why do you think you never see atheists as prominent political figures? You say it is human nature that is the real culprit, and i agree with you, because the development of religion is human nature. Isolate a group of modern individuals in a crazy Biodome type experiment, and chances are great they will invent their own religion. Add variables such as floods, lightning strikes, etc, and you've got yourself a brand new vengeful "god".

Bertrand Russell says it better than I can:
Dogma demands authority, rather than intelligent thought, as the source of opinion; it requires persecution of heretics and hostility to unbelievers; it asks of its disciples that they should inhibit natural kindness in favor of systematic hatred.

P.S. While he does a good job entertaining me with Dilbert on sunday mornings, Scott Adams is not a source that i would cite when it comes to theological discussions.

Unriggable

"A cargo cult may appear in tribal societies in the wake of interaction with technologically advanced, non-native cultures. The cult is focused on obtaining the material wealth of the advanced culture through magical thinking, religious rituals and practices, believing that the wealth was intended for them by their deities and ancestors."
-Wikipedia

I was never disagreeing with you.

Rev0lver

Of course it is combined with human nature, but it is backed by religion. The bible states that gays and infidels are wicked and God will cast them down into hell, so the medieval churches and others throughout history simply saw themselves as doing God's work.

Christianity itself appears to be a peaceful religion, but there is no doubt that it's ideas greatly influence evil.