Mushroom Man

Do I have to even ask if that was serious?

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Maximus

Let me interject with a little brain nugget on Laws.

What is a law? By definition a law is a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority, in the simplest form. In my mind laws are created to manipulate and control a certain populace. Laws do not share borders all the time, every country usually has it's own laws. Created by people, designed by people. Laws are different because the people these laws control are different. They are not natural, they are not god given. Different gods, different laws.

Once again laws are not natural, they are man made. With society pressing the limits in knowledge and technology, we tend to forget we were ever even part of the animal world. Religious types deny it altogether, which is fine whatever floats your boat. But you cannot control nature, so therefore you cannot assign "laws" to it. Even if a god created us nature is unpredictable and ever changing.

This brings me to your claim that our "laws" are illegal. So you say god intended us to legalize marijuana? As I said before nature has no laws, and marijuana is part of nature. You must remember marijuana is a plant, a living thing. If anything you would be violating marijuanas laws by smoking it. It's here to survive and reproduce, just like yourself. Not be cut down, dried and smoked. But since marijuana is not human and cannot create laws it's subject to our consumption without retaliation. Same goes for food, if nature had laws we'd be felons.

What our society does is completely different from any natural law, because there is no such thing. It's hard for me to imagine even god has laws. Fat cats getting fatter, wholesome good people dying, seems unpredictable and sometimes unfair. Just like nature. No laws, just circumstance.

Bottom line is laws are man made, you shouldn't assume that it was placed here just for us to kill it. The goal in nature is to survive, luckily it's easy to grow and survive where we won't let it go extinct.

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DRWWadsworth

Then you must conceed to what is referred to as the "Laws of Nature."

Some laws but not all laws!

Again, that is true of some laws but not all laws.

Everything functions according to a set of laws!!

Science can control nature by manipulating the Laws of Nature.

This premise has nothing to do with your argument and is superfluous! Nature is predictable!

Who are you referring to?

Already shown to be an incorrect statement.

You obviously don't believe in God!

We are!

Everything God does is by utilizing some law. Everything that is was create by the manipulation of a law

We live and die because of the Laws of Nature.

Again, not all laws!

It is alive for us to utilize!

DRWWadsworth

You quote Ephesians which was written by a man called Saul of Tarsus who was commissioned by the Jewish Sanhedrin of his day to infiltrate the cult known as Christians and drive it from amongst the Jews. Saul of Tarsus was a Pharisee whose education in Greece was paid for by the Pharisees. He was known by Christians to have persecuted anyone who called themselves a Christian. So he changed his name to Paul – Greek or Saul - and called himself an Apostle since it was an accepted colloquial definition of the word Apostle in the first century A.D. to be a true follower of or as we would think of today as a groupie.

The bona fide Apostles, except Peter, didn’t trust or believe him. He managed to fool Peter in to believing he had changed and finagled Peter to ordaining him as a missionary to the Gentiles. Not an Apostle!. There were already 12 Apostles, Matthias replacing Judas of Iscariot after he betrayed Christ and hung himself. Saul of Tarsus contradicted all of Jesus Christ’s teachings and even appointed nine other Apostles. He was a liar and according to Jesus Christ, he was the antichrist, so if you are a Practicing Christian. don’t put any faith or trust in the writings of Saul of Tarsus unless you are a 20th Century Born Again Christian.

Saul of Tarsus concocted an elaborate story of conversion to Christianity but like all liars, he couldn’t keep his story straight. Most Christians were and still are bamboozled by his eloquence and miraculous conversion, so they quickly ignore the fact that there are four different versions in his writings. Typical of liars, they can’t keep their story straight!

Saul of Tarsus contradicted every teachings of Jesus Christ, and he claimed the Gospel of Jesus Christ as his own. He said that a person MUST be ordained before he can testify of Jesus Christ but he never was ordained an Apostle. He lied to Peter and managed to finagle an ordination as a missionary out of Peter but not as an Apostle. There were already twelve Apostles when Saul of Tarsus lied and claimed to be an Apostle.

The thing is, Saul of Tarsus was fluent in Greek. He knew that at that time, it was a colloquially accepted definition of the word “Apostle” to be a devote follower of someone like today we think of as a “groupie.” Peter nor any of the Apostles were educated men so Saul of Tarsus had a field day pulling the over their eyes. Still, none of the true Apostles believed or trusted Saul of Tarsus but Peter.

I issued a challenge to any Christian Professional Faith Merchant including the Mormon so-called “Prophets,” a million dollars if they could provide one scriptural reference that says Saul of Tarsus was ever ordained an Apostle by a bona fide Apostle. For twenty years, my challenge has been ignored.

So the last thing you want is to put any faith, trust or validity in any of the writings of Saul of Tarsus the liar, a.k.t.a.c.a.s.a. Apostle Paul. He was an Apostle of Satan as Jesus Christ said, the antichrist!

The whole purpose of this life is to learn and prove to ourselves what we will and will not do in given circumstances. How can we learn if like the Children of Israel and the Muslims. How could we learn if we are given 613 laws and 1665 laws respectively and told what to do evey waking moment, what we can eat and how to wipe our asses when we are through. Man learns by making mistakes or from the mistakes of others. That is why the Judgment will be perfect. We’ll Judge ourselves. God through his appointed teachers called Prophet were instructed not to tell us what to do but give us moral guidelines. But those prophets were fallible men and more often than not, would get pissed that people were human. Jesus Christ said, “all the prophets and the laws were given to teach us to love God and to love one another as we love ourselves.” If we were true practicing Christians, we wouldn’t need the volumes of laws and law books including lawyers and courts to enforce the laws.

All the Prophets were instructed to teach correct principles but not tell the people what to do or not do! The Israelites had to memorize the law of Moses but could they think or know what it meant? The Muslim children in the madrasas memorize the Koran but can they think?

That’s just it. The Bible was not meant to be a book of rules any more than you are to pray to God by reading from a prepackaged payer book.

You wouldn’t write those things if you knew the truth! To begin with, no one is going to torture anyone, least wise for eternity. Any reference to burning in hell for eternity was written either by a man who didn’t know what he was talking about or he wanted to scare the bejezzies out of people to get them to do what that so-called prophet thought they should do. Either way, he was wrong and will have to answer for his misdeeds. It will be harder for him than for the people he hurt.

Even Osama bin Laden will inherit a reward so fantastic that you would kill yourself today if someone could assure you that, that would be your reward in the next life! You say, “Why will Hitler, Stalin and Osama bin Laden reap such a reward? You can just imagine how much more fabulous the reward that awaits a person who keeps his second estate and is able to go home and say, “God, this is what I did with my time on earth and what I learned.”

I frequently write that it is like comparing Hearst Castle in San Simeon California to a cardboard box under a freeway viaduct. But that is not totally accurate but I hope you’ve toured Hearst Castle so you can relate to the comparison. No one is going to inherit a cardboard box under a freeway viaduct for eternity. So, imagine how much greater will be the reward of those who do the right thing than Hearst’s San Simeon Castle!

We agree on far more if you can free your mind of millennia of lies and distortion.

You were looking through glasses of distortion made by man not God.

BudSmoker92 and you make an excellent point! The Bible was written by very imperfect men who had ulterior motives and wanted to justify their own actions.

You have an excellent question? How does one discern the truth from the bull shit. Let me give you an example. Lest you accuse me for not answering your question, let me say that it is the same thing as God has been saying all along.

Jesus Christ said, “It is not the will of the Father that I command man in all things! For he that is can’t think for himself.”

How do we tell what is true and what is bull shit?

You first have to define your God!

My God is love!

Then I read all the references to God not being love, I realize those are a certain individual’s characterization of God. With a few exceptions, the motives of that individual soon becomes clear.

An example I like is the 20th Century Born Again Christians are fond of saying, “The Bible is literally, the literal word of God.” End of discussion!

I say, “Then you believe we should do what it says in the Bible?”

They say, “By all means.”

“Well, then,” I say, “In Kings it says that men sat on the wall in a city an drank each others piss and ate each others dung. When can I expect you over to the wall around my house. The truth be known, I’ll take my chances with God because I’ll pass on your piss and shit!”

Then in Samuel, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is repeated with one big exception, the men of he house of Benjamin did not try to rape the angels but went off and had kinky sex with themselves and some women. What happened to the men? Nothing!

The lesson to be drawn? It wasn’t the kinky sex, the homosexuality or the fact that visitors were angels that was taboo in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah, it was the fact that the men of Sodom and Gomorrah tried to rape the visitors which was against the Ancient Law of Hospitality.

It is surprising what one can learn from the Bible if you bother to read it analytically and not just cursory.

nornerator

First, I would like to say your response was excellent. Well thought out, very intelligent and researched.

Also, it appears that you have thought hard about your belief system which I commend, not many people think about their beliefs.

However:

You say that when you read the bible, you discard anything that makes god seem anything other than love as "a certain individuals characterization of God." How do you know that the statements re-enforcing your belief "God is love" are not just an individuals characterization of God? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that your conception of god is equivalent to love, but if you are already going to pre-define your belief in god as "love" then why use the bible at all? I mean, if you are going to throw away 3/4 of it, why not just define your God as love and be done with it?

What use is the Bible if you are going to throw away any statements in it that don't fit your preconceived notion of what god is?

Thats like saying, "I want to know what this rock is made out of. I believe it is 100% gold. I'm going to study each particle in it, although any particle that is not gold is not actually part of the rock, just a way of adding character to the gold"

DRWWadsworth

FROM: David R.W. Wadsworth <DRWWadsworth@gmail.com>

First, I would like to apologize for the tardiness of this reply. For about 15 years now is when doing anything on the computer, always do it off-line to maintain a hard copy then transfer it to on-line to whatever I‘m doing. I get lazy and overly self-confident then when I have spends hours responsing to something someone wrote, I hit some key and “caplooie” it vanishes.

I could not agree with you more in many regards. But I have had certain experiences which I can not ignore or much less deny which has changed some, strengthened others while proving others to be totally false.

That is the difference between True Practicing Christians, 20th Century False Deists, Muslims, Shamanists, Shintoists, Confucianists and to a large degree Jews. True Practicing Christians realize the Bible was written by men. Inspired by God, Yes but not told what they had to say word for word. God leaves it up to the Prophet – the definition of a Prophet is “teacher” – to sink or swim due to his own prejudices. God is not going to tell man what to do, how to do it. The Bible isn’t perfect, meaning God didn’t write it liked the Muslims try to make people believe about the Koran – incidently, Muhammad was illiterate and couldn’t read or write. Muslims say this is proof tht God wrote the Koran until tolearn that Muhammad preached to his people and had “remembrancers” remember his teachings for upwards of 40 – 5 years.

True, the Apostles didn’t write their accounts of what transpired for 30-, 40, 50 & 60 years following its occurrence. But that goes to prove my point. The Bible was meant as a lesson in history written by fallible people. We each can gain our own truths from the Bible. Mine don’t have to be the same as yours and visa versa. The Bibl was not mean as an exact road map back to heaven for that would take away our freedoms to do as we wanted. Nothing is more sacred to Gods than the reason we came here. Not to see if we can follow a road map exactly but to see if we can “THINK FOR OURSELVES AND DO WHAT I RIGHT! That is the whole purpose of a judgment.

How would you like your Dad or Mother ride with you in the car and say. “Don’t do this,” “Do that,” }Don ‘t do this,” “Don’t do that.” “Turn here, bit there,” etc, etc. You’d get pissed off thinking to yourself, ”When am I going to get to drive my own car and go where I wan t to go?” It is the same with God. That is why minor sins (errors, infractions, crimes) are not that big a deal with. When you die a physical death, you are going to be resurrected and live forever. By our making mistakes agaomst the best adbier rom God, hopefully we’ll learn from them which will teaches us far more than if were told what we can and can’t do or think!

Granted, thee are major infractions such as murder and rape. Basically, we can do what ever we want as long as we don’t violate other freedom of choice = rape. Murder is a form of rape! We deny that person the freedom and right to make choice whether he or she wants to lie or die. When ever we impose our will regardless of whether it is religious or secular, it is rape!

If you knew that certain writings in the New Testament contradicted the teachings of Jesus Christ would you throw away the whole New Testament or disregard some writings as false. So it is with Saul of Tarsus who lied and changed his name to Apostle Paul, Paul being the Greek equivalent of Saul. Saul of Tarsus wrote, “A man must be ordained to testify of Jesus Christ.” Since he was never ordained as an Apostle and all of his writings contradict the teachings of Jesus Christ, once you know this for yourself, are you going to put any stock in his writing or take the advice of those who believe in the Gospel of Saul of Tarsus as opposed to the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

If you knew the many ungodly and tyrannical things Moses did to the children of Israel, would you put much faith or trust in his writing. Read them and study them, yes but he was only prophet and not wnen he concocted t he 613 Laws of Moses. Why didn’t he say they were the laws of God. Because they weren’t and he knew it! Moses knew that it is pagan to call anything from God in the name of man or anything of man in the name of God!

That’s why God is God, because he lets us use our own mistakes, use our best judgment after much study and pray what is true and what is false. Does that mean we are correct 100% of the time? No! But I’ll tell you, that person is more often right than wrong!

It is more closely like people saying, “’The theory of relativity’ is fact and base all their research and the whole premise their thesis on it only to find it has been disproved




David R.W. Wadsworth

DAS IDYLLWILD SCHONGEBIET
MAILING ADDRESS: P.O. Box 617
SHIPPING ADDRESS: 25685 Big Pine
Idyllwild, CA 92549

(951) 659-0130

DRWWadsworth@gmail.com

thewayiroll

I would definately not tell anyone you are ATHEIST!! That alone shows a lost,uneducated, selfish individual.Even Satan confesses there is God. Why would anyone try to disclaim the Creator who gave them Life? Are you mad he put you here? I dont get it? Have you ever asked him for anything? The day you confess Jesus is Lord and ask for forgiveness you can ask God anything & you will see! So if you really are ATHEIST you should not be scared to do just that. "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess" Whether you believe or not, Judgement comes to all. If there is any questions you may have for me that may help your questions concerning God/Jesus I would be glad to help. I am by no means mocking or laughing at your belief it is sad and the consequence is not what you think or you would be educating yourself much more. Respectfully, Chris

ganja-man

Lol...:P

I don't think I'll bother asking a serious question because I doubt I'll get a serious answer.

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Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward; For there you have been, and there you long to return.~ Leonardo Da Vinci

thewayiroll

There was also a man in the BIBLE named Thomas. He was a doubter also. He had to touch Jesuss scars to believe he had really died on the CROSS. If I had a question concerning "eternal life" I would ask anyone who may know more than myself. Most people who are scared of the truth do not ask questions. Fear is from SATAN what a miserable way to live this short life. Why would anyone chance there SOUL? Satan does a great job and really has no reason to interfere in your life. Atheist make his goal much easier. I really hope you ask some questions? thanks, Chris

Vesey

Just for giggles, I prayed to god for a week, and then prayed to satan for a week.

Both weeks were pretty similar in nature.

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