goodgirl

Your questions are a bit difficult to answer because they make certain assumptions that I don't necessarily agree with about what the Bible is trying to teach. I usually try not to get involved in something that involves going back and forth with Bible quotes partly because I don't have a bunch in my arsenal and partly because every side of every issue is usually able to pull out something that they feel proves their side.


"Why would an all powerful god/being, who knows everything that was, has, and is going to happen, inspire a book, but give no evidence or proof, of his existance?"

Some would argue that there is proof of his existence all around us. What proof could God give that would convince the true skeptics? To those that don't believe there are a million reasons not to believe and to those that do believe, they already have all the proof they need.

That being said....it would be really cool if he held a press conference and set people straight about what is and is not done in his name.


"And tell all these people in this book that if they dont believe it, they will suffer eternal hellfire?"

I'm not so sure he did. Of course this is the part that would involve the back and forth Bible quoting and I am more a spirit of the law kind of gal.


"When this "All powerful god" knows that, there are other "false religions" that are going to compete with his, that, none of these religions, are going to give evidence of their gods existance..."

Personally I believe that all of the preaching against giving worship to false idols is actually more along the lines of worship of money and the like. To say that he is the one true God does not necessarily mean that he doesn't go by more than one name and is not worshipped in other ways in other cultures.


"So how would we know which one to choose? We dont, and most of us are born into a culture, with religion in it already, so does just being born into this culture, condemn us to hellfire?"

Not a real big fan of the hellfire talk so I am probably the wrong one to answer this as well. Personally the concept of hell has always been much more abstract (as are most of the concepts in the Bible.) If you choose to turn your back on God and not allow his love into your life then you will not be able to benefit and feel the effects of that love. To someone that has felt it and does believe in it that would be hell. To have to live eternity without being able to feel the love and comfort that he offers would be our choice. It is not a punishment so much as a warning.


No, being born to a different culture or religion would not be condemned to hellfire. They haven't chosen to turn their back on God's love they have just either found a different way of worshipping him, call him by a different name, or are ignorant of his message. To not believe is not enough to get you sent to hell....it is when you believe and you choose to act in a way that goes against his love and by extension love of self and others that you have chosen your own path to hell.

But what do I know? I certainly don't speak for all Christians (and they appreciate that fact) just giving my own personal take on the situation. Carry on...

__________________
"No one is free when others are oppressed."

cloudburst

Hey, there;

I will be happy to address your question, truthfully and honestly, according to my interpretation and beliefs.

To say that there is no evidence or proof of God....I'm sorry, but I do not agree with that. I see plenty of evidence, not only around me, but in my life as well, that God exists and is real. Sure, we may not be able to prove His existence on a supernatural plane, but I definitely see proof of His existence all around me. The Bible actually addresses this, in Romans 1:20, saying that His invisible attributes are seen in creation, so that no one (who refuses to believe in Him) is without excuse. What this is saying is that the evidence of His existence is all around you.

No, being born into such a culture does not condemn you to hellfire....but rejecting the sacrifice of Jesus Christ does. This is why I believe what I believe. According to the Bible, we are all separated from God. It is our sin that separates us from God...every single on of us. Because of this fact, we needed an intercessor to bring us back into fellowship with God, which is where Jesus comes in...and He can only be intercessor if He was the Son of God.

Accepting Christ actually bridges the gap between us and God. It's not like God is up in heaven saying "Accept Jesus...because I said so." We need Jesus because He is the one that brings us into fellowship with God....the only one who can bridge that gap between us and God.

Now, you ask how I know that He is the real deal? I believe He is the real deal because Christianity is the only religion that tells us how to bridge that gap between man and God...that shows us how we can get back in touch with God. All other religions are all about doing things to appease their gods, and it's not about a relationship with God at all, or getting to know Him on a personal level...It's about doing stuff so they won't get mad and destroy you.

Yes, God knows that there are other false religions, but that's why God sends missionaries out in order to tell people the Gospel. The Bible says that if you seek God, that He will make Himself known to you. That's HUGE...no other faith offers that!!! As far as those people who have nbever heard the gospel...I don't know. That's not up to me to judge, but there is an intriguing passage that I believe touches on this:

Prov. 24:12: If you say "Surely we did not know this," Does not He who weighs the hearts consider it? He who keeps your soul, does He not know it? And will He not render to each man according to his deeds?

What this is saying to me is that God is not going to punish someone for something that they never knew about. God is just in His judgment. On the other hand, for those who HAVE heard, God holds them fully responsible.

klax

Why is it that every time someone is talking about God, they feel they can speak on His behalf? Were you there? Did He tell this to you personally? And how can you say that "God sends missionaries"? God doesn't send missionaries, the church does, and that is fact. Also, I think it's really fucked up to say that God holds people responsible for their actions if they've heard His word. Basically that means that if a person tells someone else ignorant of God about Christianity and the word of God, that, that person is now accountable for their actions in the ways of believing in God and His word. There's an old story about a missionary who went to convert some eskimos, and the missionary quoted the same passage you did in his teachings. An eskimo asked him about this and said "So if a person did not know about God and Heaven, they would not be damned?" and the missionary said, "No, not if they did not know." The eskimo replied, "Then why did you tell me?"

If the cops do such thing it's called entrapment, so now why is it ok for religions to do such things? It isn't and I think it's disgusting, you're forcing your beliefs on someone just by talking about them, that's not right at all, and Christians should strive to be Christ-like, not just Christians. And in our culture's definition of a good person, someone who's charitable, kind, giving, understanding and compassionate will be damned to hellfire if they do not simply accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior, while a man who's spent half of his life in prison for a double rape/murder can, on his death bed, ask for absolution and go to Heaven. Christianity is quite a perverse system, and I'll have nothing to do with it, and if I'm damned for it, so be it. I'd rather go to Hell than to be part of a system like this. I'll sum up what I think of the church in three words. Christianity is despicable.

__________________
Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free. -Jim Morrison

Silver Haze

Without quoting the bible or talking from personal experience how can you say god exist or that even the god you pick to follow is the "right" one?

cloudburst

Hi, silverhaze;

Well, obviously I can't prove that God exists on a scientific plane, but I see plenty of proof that God exists in the world around me. If Darwinian evolution is the only other alternative explanation to how the world came about, then I am forced to accept with the fact that there was an intelligent designer.

IMO, there is no way that all of the life on this planet came about by chance. It just doesn't make sense to me.

As far as proving that the God I pick is the "right" one....I would cite personal revelation, and my supernatural experiences, but since we're not using that line of thought, I guess it all boils down to what makes the most sense.

First of all, the Bible full of prophecies that have been fulfilled.

Secondly, the fact that no one has ever discovered the body of Christ...even the fact that the body disappeared in the first place....is great proof of His resurrection. The Bible says that the stone was rolled away and the body disappeared. Those stones were HUGE!! How could that have happened with all of those guards protecting the body of Jesus, without some sort of supernatural intervention?

Thirdly, the conversion of the apostle Paul, and if you read the accounts of the apostles of the early church...they were martyred for their faith in extremely brutal ways. If Christianity were just a myth, why would they be willing to die such brutal deaths in order to keep some myth going? It would not make any sense at all.

On a philosophical note, to me, the Bible explains life and existence in a way that makes perfect sense. For example, the Bible says that we are made in the image of God. The Judeo-Christian God is a god of pure love. If we were made in the image of God, then it would make sense that our nature is one that is naturally attuned to receive love. Sure, there are evil people, but overall, everyone wants and strives for love in their lives. All of the other religions, if there are gods involved...these are not gods of love. They are gods of war, jealousy, and anger...but they do not love people. Many of these gods are also imperfect.

The God of the Bible is a God of perfection, and it would only make sense to me that God would have to be perfect, or else what kind of a God is He? Certainly not one worthy of my adoration.

So, then, those are a few of the reasons why I take Christianity as the one true religion. All of that, plus personal experiences.

I hope this helped

yoman3

Whats up with all this "you already made up your minds" stuff? What, as if us atheists are so closed minded that we just reject god no matter what "evidence" is put in front of us? I can say the same thing about you theists, you guys don't reject god because you refuse to open yourself up to skepticism.

"If you indicated an actual desire to understand..."

A desire to understand what? A supernatural being with no evidence for his existence? I can say that I already tried to understand, I just couldn't. I couldn't understand "god" because there are so many controdictions, so many fallacies, and so much things that are just so illogical about his actual existence that I do not believe.

Maximus

I completely agree. You prove to me that god exists and that if I do not believe I will burn forever blah blah and I will believe in it cause who wants to get burned for eternity anyways? On the other side if I do not see substantial evidence (as with todays debate) I'm not going to live my life that's strung to a religion I do not believe in. You only live once, I'll worry about the afterlife when I'm dead. It's not that I've already "made up my mind", I've decided I'm happier living my life on my own terms.

__________________

SenorSmokesALot

I'm somewhat conflicted on this issue. I am a Christian but not necessarily in the same way as anyone else(is there one type of Christian, after all?). I am, in a sense, a closet Christian. It's not that I'm embarassed about my religion, it's just that one my relationship with God is personal and two, it's so hard being a Christian nowadays (especially if you smoke pot and have sex!). The entire of idea of eternal damnation is very Old Testament. Jesus always spoke of love and acceptance. Am I to believe, for example, that all of my ancestors in Korea, who were probably Buddhists and had never even heard about Jesus, let alone seen a Bible, are damned to hell? Surely not. I know there are those Christians that believe if you don't believe in this religion then you are bound for hell but a lot of us feel, at least I feel, that if you've lived a good life, a life that a Christian would live (don't kill, don't lie, don't steal), even if you're not a Christian you're not bound to be damned. Not being a Christian won't send you to hell, in fact I'm not so sure there is such a literal place. But in my view, if you lead a morally just and fulfilling life you'll be rewarded for it. Now I sound like some crazy Christian guy and I'll probably get shit for it, which is why I like being a closeted Christian, but I hope this answered your question. Cheers

__________________
"Herb is the Healing of a Nation" ~Bob Marley

"I think people need to be educated to the fact that marijuana is not a drug. Marijuana is an herb and a flower. God put it here. If He put it here and He wants it to grow, what gives the government the right to say that God is wrong?" ~Willie Nelson

Yana Usdi

You don't sound crazy to me and you won't catch any crap from this direction. I know I come off as hostile toward religion and to a point I am, but not toward the religious themselves. Just the more aggressive or dangerous aspects that deny scientific findings based on an old book or the ones who want to set law and force us to live by their beliefs. More rational ones I try to deal with on a live and let live basis and any offense to them is unintended. It's not them I'm angry with.

In general my understanding is that some are inclined toward faith and if it isn't expressed in religion it'll be expressed in nationalism or other causes instead, recently I ran across someone who was trying to turn science into an ideology and that's not a good idea either. They just mistook faith in one thing for faith in another but it's all faith. Science is a tool, not a belief system.

I've never talked about my beliefs much here, I'll touch on them quick. I don't believe in religion but my understanding of human nature leads me in many of the same directions, the "Golden Rule" type of idea. When others smile at us we tend to smile back, when others treat us badly it tends to put us in a bad mood and we're often short tempered with others as a result. It's a matter of being aware of the fact that we mirror others and others tend to mirror us as well, we've got to pick a side and figure out what aspects of human nature it is that we want to reinforce. The bad ways we've been treated ourselves, or the good ones?

We tend to want to play 'tough guy' with others but when others do it to us we don't respond well, if we don't feel we're being treated fairly the lesson is lost even if we did make a mistake to start with. Punishment or reaction has to suit the deed. Others feel the same, the tough guy routine has some emotional satisfaction for the doer but it's counter productive and we should know that by now. On a personal and national/international level. The world we live in is simply the one we allowed, if we don't like it change it.

One video that explores the idea a little bit was a recent TED video titled "The Web as random acts of kindness". It doesn't touch on religion at all, but more on the idea that simply changing the way we interact can have useful and beneficial results. I think this basic theme can be applied to more than the internet if we looked for ways to apply it.

Jonathan Zittrain: The Web as random acts of kindness | Video on TED.com

__________________
"Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach him to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day." -Dan Moon

Always be kind to animals, Morning, noon and night: For animals have feelings too, And furthermore, they bite. - John Gardner

SmokeSomeWeed

there was always one person that God spoke to in the stories..
nobody has this "gift"..
so we can never get to prove his existance..
Jesus #2 will save us all when it gonna be 2012!
lol, joking..

Bible is a scary stories for adults ^^

__________________
"I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.."
-Frank Lloyd Wright