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sideoftheroad

Everyone knows that it's 'wrong' to talk poorly of one religion, lest ya wanna be labelled a rascist

Well, one thing I find interesting, is that most of the people whom I hear say 'Religion is for the sheep, it's evil, blah blah blah' are the same people that would call me a stereotyping rascist asshole if I, for instance, said I didn't agree with Judaeoism.

Which is interesting. Because, on one hand, it is fine to talk negatively of religion in a broad sense, yet when you nitpick and get specific about certain religions it is a major faux-pa. Unless, of course, it is Christianity, which is exempt from these unwritten social rules.

Now let's say I stated 'Islam is a religion which breeds violence'. This statement isn't saying that Islamic people are violent, it is suggesting that the Islamic texts themselves are. Now how come when someone says this, people get so high-and-mighty and defensive, even if the know less about the religious texts than the person saying it?

Is it really that bad to express one's opinion about a stack of books and doctrines? In this free North America that we live in, how come my access to my freedom of speech is suddenly denied when it involves specific religions?

As I stated before, Christianity is exempt from this. Probably because it is so widespread and is a foundation for North American views and laws, so it is so ingrained in each of us that we are allowed to poke fun. Yet 1 out of 4 people are Muslim, and there are a billion Buddhists in the world. The majority of religious people belong to one of the mainstream groups, so it's not like you have to worry about 'singling them out' - it's more like 'billion-ing them out'

Yet when it comes to those small 'occult' relgions, such as the Raelians and Scientology and whatnot, I can freely refer to them as wacko cults and not really step on peoples' toes. How come? Shouldn't we protect the few, instead of the large?

Nope, because these groups haven't hit a significant number and don't have much global control - and that's where it all comes down to. We are so scared of offending people we won't say what we believe. No, that's not it. It is that we are scared of becoming displaced from our peers and being branded a 'Rascist' (the Left-Side's answer to the Commie ) that we won't dare question the validity of a group's dogma.

So everyone can claim free speech, but the fact is there is something deeper and more innate in us that prevents us from saying things - something that is derived from a media-induced 'tolerance frenzy' that shoves things down our throats and expects us to take it.

Well, no one should have immunity in this world. Saying 'I hate Joe' should be frowned upon more than saying 'I have a strong dislike towards the precepts declared in the Torah', because we are talking about a living person here, not a book on a shelf.

 

iGame3D

Are you confusing racism and bigotry?
Or are you talking about muslims, hindus, buddhists which are traditionally not white, and therefore you are blasting all those other colors of people in your hate of their religion? Jews are a mixed lot, and I can't ever tell you if its a race or a religion, so you get mixed into the racists bigotry hole if you talk bad about them.

Maybe its the way you say it. Maybe its the fact that you bring it up. If you don't practice it, why the hell are you talking about it?

Because singling out one group is hate speech, and shows you didn't
learn your lesson about people like Hitler or the KKK.

Well Hitler was a Christians, Christians had the Inquistion, the Crusades, and The reformation, the KKK are Christians, people like Jerry Falwell and the 700 Club and those 20,000 Catholic child abuse cases don't make Christianity really popular with some people. A history of "missionary work" and annoying preaching to people who don't want to be bothered with your beliefs is also annoying.

Because we are bombing the crap out of Muslims. Duh! There are 1.3 Billion Muslims, maybe 200,000 of them tops are involved in any kind of active violence against other countries. Compare..

The United States Christian President has 140,000 troops in Iraq, and a military budget greater than the military budgets all the nations the of the world combined, and the world's highest prison population,mostly blacks, hispanics and mostly for drugs, whats that tell ya?

Say what ever the hell you want, but be prepared for people to A) not listen to you, B) Spot your racism/bigotry even if you can't see it C) state facts that will shame your religion of choice the same as you try to shame there's D) Explain to you that only Fanatics take any doctrine word for word literal and act on it in some medieval fashion, and they are in the minority

Maybe its becaus of the disgusting things"Christians" have done in history that we, in America, are most aware of. We surely never learned about "Slavery in the mid east" in high school.

And the last time Buddhists bothered anyone was when?
What was the last buddhist country we invaded and bombed? Vietnam? Cambodia?

Because the main religions view everything outside their own religion as a wacko cult, so you aren't really wrong, Big wacko cult, small wacko cult, whats the difference? Oh yeah, the big wacko cults wield money, power, and armies while using proven mind control techniques, while some of the little wacko cults just use proven mind control techniques and try to take your money, personal power, and eventually do something bad with weapons.

Well thats you, who the hell is the we?

Or maybe its just "good upbringing". My Momma always said "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all". Why you feel the need to say something rotten about someone's religion is something you need to personally explore.

I don't think its up to you or anyone else to decide what speech "should be frowned upon", If I hate Joe and the Torah, thats up to me to say or not say, and deal with the consquences of the feelings I evoke from people by saying it. Definately not for others to decide "you can't say that".

Nothing is immune from opinion, but opinions are like skin cells, everyone has them and they aren't always pretty.

sideoftheroad

Alright you kind of got off topic, but it's fun nevertheless


The United States Christian President has 140,000 troops in Iraq, and a military budget greater than the military budgets all the nations the of the world combined, and the world's highest prison population,mostly blacks, hispanics and mostly for drugs, whats that tell ya?


What does this tell me? I'm not sure, tell me why in Toronto the neighbourhoods where all of the shootings and stabbings go on are mainly black neighbourhoods? If I compiled a graph which showed the number of murders and the race of the victims and murderers, how would you react? The fact is, crime is caused by poverty and not race, however, these 'black neighbourhoods' are all poorer neighbourhoods and therefore are subjected to more crime. But according to Political Correctness, it is wrong for me to point this obvious fact out, because that's singling out and as you pointed out that is what Hitler and the KKK do.

So we shouldn't send more cops to these neighbourhoods. In fact, in order to serve equality, we should send an equal amount of cops to the suburbs as we do to the crime-ridden neighbourhoods. Makes a lot of sense right? And when the cops arrest more people in these neighbourhoods they call it racial profilling, it's a complete farce. In the worst area in Toronto, if you are a black teen and get arrested you don't get a fine or serve time - you write an essay. It's complete ****, Political Correctness has gotten to the point where logic is defied to conform to it.


Maybe its becaus of the disgusting things"Christians" have done in history that we, in America, are most aware of. We surely never learned about "Slavery in the mid east" in high school.

Really? Because there is a HELL of a lot of slavery going on there.

In fact, in many places in the Middle East 50% of the population is enslaved - they are called women. Mercy killings, female circumcision, torture... these are things which are going on RIGHT NOW.

In our textbooks we learn about equality and tolerance. In textbooks in Saudi Arabia and many other Middle Eastern countries they learn about how Evil the West is.

But you are right, Christianity is the evil of the modern day. Atrocities were committed in the past and some even today (sexual abuse), yet it is not nearly as bad as a woman being doused with acid because she was raped by a man.

Yep, we North Americans are EVIL

AnimalChin

its 100% religion, 0% race.

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Cassius

I hope Niteshift sees this. /evil grin

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Hiz Highness

Actually that's incorrect. The decendants of the tribe of Judah (one of the twelve tribes of Isreal) made up the original "Jews". At that point in time was very much a race. Members of the tribe of Judah still live today.

-HH

AnimalChin

yeah but in 2004, you can convert to judaism or drop it. if it was a race you would be stuck for life.

iGame3D

You mean like FBI Uniform Crime reports?
Off topic since we are dicussing religion, but .....
Looking at 2002 crimes
I find white men killed 2,192 other white men, and 1,086 white women.
Black men killed 2,545 black men and 818 black women.
There were 5,356 white murderers and 5,579 black murderers
and 4,604 unkown race murderers.

Crime has a number of factors see the statistics.
Drug arrest and incarceration Surely play a role in effecting the potential violent offender, ie simple pot smoker, to prison bitch, to jobless excon, to armed robber.
Who wrote the drug laws and who are the rich people who actively prevent the people living in poverty from escaping neighborhoods filled with poverty and crime, by arresting hundreds of thousands of them for drug crimes annually? Right White people.

Think about this, what if your father or mother went to jail for weed, where would you be today? Where would you be if either of your parents were in juvenile detention or prison as a teen?

What would your life be like if one of your parents was in prison and the other one was making miniumum wage (approx $8,000 year)?

Poverty sucks. But its not the only cause of crime, look at multi-millionair Ken Lay for example.


Maintain a police presence, but not busting down doors for an ounce of grass which should be available at the local store or growing in the alley way. That only serves to make the population loathe and fear law enforcement.

Same thing. A police presence deters crime, when they only show up when the blood flows, or when they are there to due the state's dirty work, it doesn't help anyone.

Racial Profiling is when there is a larger amount of blacks or other race being stopped, searched and arrested, compared to the population at large.

Arrested for what? Show evidence and examples. Prison for drug offenses only makes things worse all around. I doubt they write essays "Why I won't do a drive by shootings anymore"


Yes Really. 12 years of school we study: white Christian people came from Europe, they burned the witches, they had a tea party, they had a revolution, they enslaved the black man, killed all the red men,taxed this, taxed that, went to war with the brown mexicans, went to war with the yellow Japanese,a white Christian in Germany killed 8 million jews. Same crap, year after year, We never even got to the atomic bomb in 12 years of school.

According to 1998 DOJ Surveys 18% of American women have been raped, 17.7 Million women. 22% were under age 12, 32% were 12 to 17.
Thats just whats reported, I think its larger, from the stories I've encountered numerous times by the women in my life.
1.9 Million women are projected to be physically assaulted (hit, slap or gun violence) in the United States Annaully.
There were 3,251 Women Murdered in the US in 2002
There were 95,136 Forceable Rapes Reported in the US in 2002.

According to census figures 62 percent of the poor (living below poverty level) are women. The official poverty rate rose, from 11.7 percent in 2001 to 12.1 percent in 2002. The number in poverty increased also, by 1.7 million people, to 34.6 million in 2002. 13,148,000 Women in poverty.

Single person poverty threshold is below $9,183 BEFORE taxes. Minimum wage times 40 hours times 52 weeks = $10,712 (these people are not counted as "in poverty") minus taxes = $8,783.84 in real pay, but not considered on the "poverty" ranks
How many million "slaves" do we have?

Really? We never learned that in my school. If it was being taught at any local church the kids sure never practiced what they were taughtt.

1959 Geneva Convention on the Rights of Children. Principle 10 states that: " a child shall be brought up in a spirit of understanding, tolerance, friendship among peoples."

That never made it to my textbooks. From world history to drug propaganda, tolerance and friendship among peoples was never a theme.

Have you seen these textbooks? Saudi Arabi has over $300 Billion invested in the US right now, after removing $500 Billion in investments in the past few years due to the 9/11 lawsuits against them. But all that money pretty much says they aren't all into the "West is evil" hype you are talking about.

Some people are whiningabout these Palestinian books.
Looks no different to me than a combination of Catholic schools, Sunday Schools and military recruiting, we have both in our education system here.


How about a Christian blowng up an Abortion Clinic, a Gay Night Club and the Olympics?
How about the Catholic church discouraging the use of condoms and telling third world people' that codoms equal death, while AIDS rages like a black plague across their country.
How about the Christian Bush ordering an unjustified war that has killed nearly 13,000 civilians.
How about the Baptist who ordered to drop the Atomic bomb on a defeated country twice, killing 300,000 instantly.

not nearly as bad ?!?! I wonder what kind of murder you may be capable with that kind of mindset.

Religious Fanatics Kill and Blind Faith Kills , thats the way it is everywhere, for all time.
Heavens Gate Cult for an example of a "wacko cult" version of the same problem.

Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.

MickityMike

So now it's wrong to single out one group? What if that group is the Nazi Party?

Or what if that one group I'm singling out for a perceived offense, really did commit the offense? What if what I'm saying about this imaginary group is true? How is that like Hitler or the KKK? I'd ague that the real lesson of Hitler is: rather than muffle those you disagree with as Hitler- or KKK-like, grant them the opportunity to speak, then demonstrate why their beliefs are wrong.

This tells me that in your world, the fact that we have blacks and Latinos in prison in this country somehow relates to people getting pissed off when someone claims that Islam is a “violent religion”. (WTF?) I mean, it must have something to do with it since you concluded your point on the subject with that statement...

And how are we “bombing the crap” out of Muslims?

A) Not listen = Close-minded.

B) Spot bigotry even if you can’t see it = What if it’s NOT actually a bigoted attitude? What if yours is the prejudiced view? How would you know if you won’t listen?

C) Shame your religion as, blah blah = Sure, most religions have amoral tangential or central themes; but that does not then logically follow that all religions are “bad” right now. (Rather than religions, I think it’s more accurate to describe this conflict as more of a clash between cultures – or even a single clash within the Middle Eastern culture itself. Now, I agree that the Western culture has committed horrible acts in the past, but past misdeeds do not excuse current misdeeds by another.) By the way, I don’t think Islam is a “violent religion”, nor do I think that it has only been Islam that’s been used by fanatics to justify violent acts.

D) “Explain to you that only Fanatics take any doctrine word for word literal and act on it in some medieval fashion, and they are in the minority” = So, I’m a fanatic if I don’t listen to other’s arguments and irrationally hold onto my beliefs? Excuse me, but doesn’t that sound just a bit like your “Manifesto” I’m wading through right now? And who gives a rat’s ass if someone’s view is in the minority? A year or so ago when the anti-war viewpoint was a distinct minority in the US, was it wrong then because it was in the minority??

How are people being controlled by religion? (What are these mind-control techniques you speak of, and how well do they work? “You are a gazelle, you are a gazelle...”) How are these religions then wielding the power of “armies”? I don’t believe that “Jesus-ah!” wants me to kill anyone for Him...
Nope, they’re sure not. Like when one implicitly justifies Middle Eastern barbarism with stats of “poverty” and “rampant violence” in North America. Care to compare and contrast some of those stats to some from the Mideast? (You think we treat women and homosexuals badly here.)

If raising the next generation in an atmosphere of tolerance and acceptance of other people is a desirable thing, why are you so ready to discount the comparable dearth of tolerance and acceptance in truly fanatical cultures with relative evils many orders of magnitude lesser than in my own?

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HappyMan

In whgat way is the was unjust?


How about the Budhists and Shintoist who killed upwards of 20 million chinese?

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