Marijuana.com

BoodahSmokah

hmm why do I feel like a voice in your head tells you there's truth in my words, or why else do you get so aroused about something that wasnt even directed to you personally? did I shake your outlook on the world? I hope so.
[I KNOW THIS GOT KINDA LONG BUT IF YOU HAVE ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT YOU SAY PLEASE READ THROUGH THIS - THANK YOU]

it's my pleasure to respond to your, allegedly well thought statements, first off, you're talking about me not having any knowledge on what I'm talking about, but you automatically take it as a fact that those religious fanatics would be hateful even without religion. So you've been talking to the Taliban, I assume? you know what's going on in their heads? You've spent your life making psychological profiles of those people? You're telling me you KNOW what way in life those people would've taken if they hadnt been raised as muslims, being told that Allah is their salvation and that he's worth living and dying for?

when I said "a more mature state of mind" I meant compared to what my state of mind had been before. I wasnt implying that it's more mature than other people's mind, I was talking about my own, which until a certain point in my life had let me believe in a god (not of any religion, rather a kind of higher power), an afterlife and concepts of good and evil.
No I'm not a deep thinker, far from it, I'm just a Zen disciple. As such my mind (not a doctrine, not a book, not another person, but my mind) has let me discover that a god as in the conception of christianity or islam doesnt exist. Why should I have studied all religions in the world to be aware of that? Do I need to know everything about Santa Clause to know he's bogus? Every religion has a pure spiritual core to it, zen, but in religion it's interpreted in a deceiving, blinding way and mixed up with suggestive symbols - even in common buddhism.
Your personal outlook on god has a lot of wisdom to it.. you said "I believe that GOD is everything we've not yet discovered... All the mysteries of life, that is GOD to me." Everything we havent yet discovered is infinite, infinity is one of the best Koans for me (koans are actually riddles impossible to answer or to comprehend in a logical way, which is supposed to bring the disciple to a zen state of mind, where logic is obsolete) Confucius said "To know what you know and to know what you dont know, this is true wisdom [you can just as well exchange the term true wisdom with zen]" - surprisingly similar to your own belief, dontya think?
I personally see everything as divine, myself, my parents, the dirt on my shoes, and you 420north, but it's an outlook that comes from within, not something that has been layed upon me, like a creed.

And no, I'm not a prophet, I just have to take a look at history in order to see that some time the concept of god will be abandoned. More and more people stop believing in god because their mind tells them to, the problem is that most of them cant find anything else to hold on to.
You actually backed up my view on religion by saying "Religion and GOD more often act as a deterrent to HATE and VIOLENCE than a catalyst for it ........ The fear of GOD, the fear of JUDGMENT -- these forces are constantly protecting you from the insanity of man." This is exactly what I condamn about religion - it is layed upon people, it isnt true. If somebody tries to be a good person because he fears being judged by god, his intentions arent real. Such people can never live a happy fulfilled life, and their minds will always be soil for fear, anger, grief.. They have to look past the concepts of good and evil and try to see life as what it really is, so wisdom can come from within them.
As to whether I judge what's real and whats not - I think you should know my point of view on that by now.. my everyday conception of reality is narrowed down to what I can perceive, everything is as real as yourself, but the concept of God is just an obstacle to looking past this poor perception of reality we all seem to be confined to.
No, I cant give you any facts except for what my mind tells me, but if *you* have any facts that can prove the existance of a god whatsoever, right on!
You really wish to have my insight? I'd love to share it with you, and I'd love to learn about yours, but I'm afraid you are just another ignorant so-called philosopher whose open-mindness endures as long as he's faced with opinions according to his own, but hey I'd be glad to learn I'm wrong on this one.

btw, excuse my limited vocabulary, english is a third language for me.

~boodah~

 

420north

Ouch... I've been flamed.

No, don't waste your time. It is obvious you are just way over my head here. Appearantly I am not at the same level of mental maturity as you are. Sorry.

There are people of all intelligence in the world, clearly mine is inferior to yours - possibly due to my appearant closed mind.

goodgirl

At a time like this it is natural to try to find someone or something to blame. It is difficult for us to believe that human beings would do this to each other. We try to find what makes them different than us and then blame that aspect.

For some people it is the fact that they were Muslim that they want to blame. For some it is the fact that they were Arab. For some it is the fact that they were religious at all. Life, and people are not that simple to catergorize.

The thought that religion caused this is preposterous. These were evil fanatics that used their belief in their religion to justify to themselves (as well as the world) the course of action they chose to take. It is not uncommon for people to hide their true motives or ambitions behind a veil of religion.

For some reason a lot of human beings feel a need to feel superior to others. Those that feel they are beyond being capable of something like this, or that they have the reasons for these actions figured out by boiling it down to religion are deluding themselves.

Because a madman chooses to hide behind their God is no reason for us to allow it. These men are responsible for their actions and those that helped them organize it will be held responsible as well. Do not allow the parties responsible for this massacre to drag you into their twisted games. If they choose to claim it is their religion that causes them to act this way do not allow their twisted justifications validity.

I find it sad how quickly people have used this tragedy to justify their own prejudices We will never be able to fully understand what caused these people to act like they did. We can only hope now to pick up the pieces and try to keep it from happening again.

I will be watching this thread closely. While I find it helpful to allow discussions on these things I fear that emotions may be running too high right now for a productive discussion. Please people don't allow these madmen to pass on their hate.

__________________
"Sometimes being a bitch is all you have to hold onto." ~Dolores Claiborne

The Stoned Philosopher

well i agree with boodahsmokah,if their wasnt the image of "god" in the world causing competition,vanity and ego trips in to thinking that your "holier than thou" then this world would be a much better place to live. even jesus taught that :"you can find salvation from with in"and even made refferences to rencartnation. i really think that jesus was another buddah and the earlier form of christianity (the one jesus taught) before the catholics came a hold of it was simmilar to taoism and buddhism.

The Stoned Philosopher

dedbr

My girlfriends family all live and work in that area.One of her in-laws was just getting out of the subway when the first plane hit the Tower.He was late for work,and yes, he worked in the world trade center.
A terrible act of violence has happened.No religion I know could be valid and advocate violence at the same time.While I am not a perfect adherant to my belief system, at least it tells me that ALL conflict is wrong,ALL conflict!
How foolish you all sound in the face of this tragedy.I am sorry that you all cannot find spiritual peace.

Bless this country and keep her safe!

Remember Rainbow Farm!

__________________
Sometimes you can cut your own throat with your tongue.....
So remember to check out our most wonderful Posting Guidelines!

 

Double M

I think we all need to act more like Winnie the Pooh!!

If you didn't know Winnie the Pooh was a taoist!

Go out to your local bookshop and pick up a copy of 'The tao of Pooh', read it and inwardly digest.

No, i am not stoned right now! The book is written by Benjamin Hoff.

" While eeyore frets, and piglet hesitates, and Owl pontificates, Pooh just is"

The Chinese are a very wise people, the west could learn a lot from their ancient principles.

BTW: Taoism is not a religion.

Daniel

I believe that in this case, religion was used as a weapon. It was used to condition and motivate men to a point that they would do anything for their "god".

I don't know of any religion that wants you to kill. Most are about love, peace and understanding. The folks that think that their god is a god of fear, usually get that idea from a type of church that feels that they need to control their subjects.

Now take this to an extreme. You have a bunch of children to pick from. You take a few of them (perhaps several hundred) for "special education". You teach them about god. You teach them about fighting. You teach them about god. You teach them about history (any history you want). More god. More training. More conditioning.

After a few years, you have a willing slave. But he believes that the person giving the orders has orders from god. Basically, you have a home-grown fanatic willing to die for anything "the man" says.

Though I don't really believe that all these terrorists were born and raised to be one, I think that they were conditioned.

These folks didn't kill because of God. The did it for a religion thought of (or warped) by an entity pissed of at the United States.

We all have personal thoughts about religion. My Christianity is different from anybody else's. Islam and Judaism in my opinion all follow the same God. Different ways to get to the same God, and we all believe that the other is wrong. But if we were to truly follow our scriptures, we are not going to kill for our God.

I cannot defend all of my beliefs, because they are just that, beliefs. Please remember when you go after a person's beliefs you are attacking them personally. If you want to bash a religion, name it, be specific with the problem that you have with it. If you don't you are just being prejudicial.

The Stoned Philosopher

i know all conflict is wrong,but what happened is another link in the revenge/vengence cycle,if we respond with more violence then there will be more attacks,too bad all of america is too bloodthirsty now

The Stoned Philosopher

420north

I agree. Violence breeds violence...

PEACE THROUGH TOLERANCE AND LOVE.

BoodahSmokah

@ The Stoned Philosopher: What you said about Jesus is exactly my opinion as well, I believe he was a bodhisattva whose words were misinterpreted, which concluded in christianity as we know it nowadays. Not that this is a new theory anyway but it seems very obvious to me..

@ Double M: that's interesting man! I have to check out that book as soon as I can find it. perhaps this is why I always liked winnie the pooh

@ daniel: "I don't know of any religion that wants you to kill. Most are about love, peace and understanding." - hm it's not all as easy as that, note that it does say in the Koran that one shall stand up and fight for Allah if need be.

@ 420north: yeah, I certainly learned about YOUR capacity of tolerance here..
it disappoints me that you take the easy way out, honestly. are you really so competitive that you cant believe someone is trying to share experience without the intention of claiming he's "better" than others?
whatever, I wont bother you about it any more..


~boodah~