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Boodah:

When you have finished reading 'The tao of Pooh', read the follow up book 'The te of Piglet' by the same author!

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To win without fighting is best - Sun Tzu

 

Legion

I agree with Baphomet in that 'religion' is probably the cause of most human suffering on this planet.

As an ex-Christian, I came away with this (Christian) view of how things are (I admit this is a very simplified overview, but I think it covers the main bases, and can even apply to Islam and most of the other major religions):

There's GOD, the big guy, the king (male, of course), all that is GOOD, who sits on a big throne up in heaven and looks down upon us and judges here...tinkers there, in response to prayer. HE has an army of angels, saints, and down here on this physical plane, his believers. After many years of directing humans through direct contact and commandments (apparently only to a small group of Hebrews who wandered around a teeny bit of the world), he decided that he'd send in his son (Jesus), the prince, to let us know what's what.

Then there's his arch-enemy, the Devil. Evil incarnate with his demons and imps, and on this physical plane, non-believers and active followers who are out to thwart all that is good and righteous, and eventually lead all souls into HELL (the final judgement and punishment for non-believing humans.)

Now, apparently, for as long as man has been thinking about these things, GOD and the Devil have been going toe to toe, fighting it out for our eternal souls in the great beyond. And he NEEDS our help in order to defeat the Devil. (As if the Creator of ALL could lose this war) As HE fights it out up there, we need to fight it out down here. We are asked to assume the full armor of GOD and go to WAR against Evil in all it's forms, like illegal Drugs and Moslems and ________ (fill in the blank.) Which we have done. And do. And will continue to do. Endlessly, it seems, as long as this mind-set persists. And this mind-set hasn't changed that much since the Dark Ages in the western mind.

This whole set-up is very much the mindset of someone who knows nothing other than governance by Kings and Queens. . . royalty. The most parasitic class of people ever to walk on the face of the earth.

This is the dynamic that is set up, and is how we (most Americans) view the world around us. From this dynamic we make our decisions relating to life. And these decisions usually result in a constant WAR mentality. 'Us' against 'Them'. It has been easy enough for a government or a religion (one in the same in most cases) to funnel this mass-mindset towards an 'enemy' (evil) for their own gain, pushing emotional buttons, using words and songs (propaganda).

This is what fuels the War on some Drugs, and is really being cranked up right now to fight 'terrorism'. Notice how often Bush uses the words 'Good' and 'Evil', followed by a stirring rendition of 'The Star Spangled Banner.' It is what Osama Bin Laudin has been using to get people to die (and kill) for his cause. Neither are right, and are only hurrying us all on our way into oblvion.

I personally don't care to be manipulated in this way. I've been screwed before falling for this crap, and don't intend to be fooled again. War starts with you, in your heart. Peace can start there also. It's up to you.

bonghits4christ

the stoned philosopher: Your right, Jesus says that the kingdom of God can be found within ourselves. He means not to look towards the sky for God. God can be found within our own spirit. But some people believe Jesus was talking in a parable, but he really meant that a spirit does dwell in us that is attached to the divine. Anyway I also agree that Jesus did have a lot in common with Siddhartha Gautama. I also agree that catholicism has incorporated a lot of religious ritual and praying of saints, confession, and lots of other stuff that is totally against what Jesus had in mind for a church. But I don't believe Jesus had so much in common with Buddah that he was actually a student of him. Jesus was a Jew, he practiced Judaism and believed in the God of Israel. Although in many ways he did reform Judaism, he was still a Jew. As for Siddhartha Gautama, he was an Indian, and his thoughts on God don't match that well with Christ. But I do notice great similarities in their beliefs on fundamental virtues that deal with life and the cycle it operates in.

StrangeDude

This is a fantastic theory. The funny thing about these religeons you mention is that they all have essentially the same fundamental values at their heart. My personal belief is that all religeons are mearly mass magick practicing groups, in that rituals, prayers, worship, and ancient study are all at the bare core of each religeon, as well as the fundament of respect for those who are dead and now on the Spiritual plane of existance only. All these practices are slightly different from regeon to regeon, and they all should've stayed in their respected regeons hundreds of years ago, but that didn't happen. The other thing one must keep in mind, is that some of these religeons especially Christianity, profess themselves to be the only truth, and that all else is lies, this always leads to dispute. Mankinds most bloody wars were not over territory, they were over religeon. The thought of another starting now is a bit juvenile by todays standards, but who said all mankind has mentally developed to think for itself. Jesus was full of good intention, and at the time, his words(assuming the Bible is accurate) were relevant, what would he say today? Would he endorse his own hate breeding one sided arguement or would he take a moderaters look at the problems we face and administer wisdom toword solving the problems like he did in his day? Remember, for the most part he hated what the church had become 2000 years ago.

The Stoned Philosopher

actually zen buddahism and taoism differ greatly from modren christianity. in zen buddahism and taoism you dont suppost to worship anything (actually they are against worshipping anything or anyone because in thier beliefs all living beings are equal),it isnt really a religion,its a way of life. Modren christianity on the other hand you worship something and you "give" your life to ideas and dogmas,which is against zen buddahist and taoist beliefs on self liberation via getting rid of all ideas and dogmas and just think what comes naturally from yourself. I can point out alot of differences,but the best way to compare them is that modren christianity is a religon of enslavement of the mind in a dualistic world while buddahism and taoism is a "religion" on freeing the mind in a non dualistic world.

The Stoned Philosopher

P.S from the historical point of view Jesus was very much a buddah becase we was pretty much a bum with nothing, even the curcifixtion was by chance with jesus simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was a drifter and we was against the social norm of churches and region.

 

suede

"wrong place at the wrong time"is the understatement of the millenniumJust had to go into the city one more time!It was a bad judgement call,ok?

Bum......Drifter......?......................i like drifter
and what about the carpenter skills?You think a Craftsman was easy to find that long ago?Try finding a good one now!

bodhisattva,bodhisattva,bodhisattva......i'm gonna sell my house in town B.suede.


End world hunger

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End World Hunger

bonghits4christ

The Stoned Philosopher: Yeah I have briefly studied zen buddhism. I know there is no doctrine or written word which a Buddhist or Taoist would call gospel. But I think Zen Buddhists are more like the way Christians should be than Taoists. The following is a paragraph with taoist thought:

Existence is beyond the power of words
To define:
Terms may be used
But are none of them absolute.

When people lost sight of the way to live
Came codes of love and harmony
Learning came, charity came
Hypocrisy took charge....

Knowledge studies others,
Wisdom is self-known.....

These Taoists believed that the One (GOD) was not one of the physical elements, nor could it be known by ancestors of the past. I like a lot of Taoists thought, and I can apply a lot of it to my life without compromising my beliefs. But there is one problem. Without words how would we get people to understand that words are not necessary to comprehend the God outside of visible appearance?
That's why I like Aristotle so much. He believes words are very important. He believes that substance is on this earth beneath appearance. He believes matter and form is substance. Substance is something that needs nothing else to exist. For example, 'brown' is not a substance because you can't buy a can of brown at the store. You can buy a horse that may be brown. The horse will be a substance because it needs nothing else for it to exist. Substance is a subject, but cannot be a predicate. The word "substance", actually means to stand under.
Anyway that's my major disagreement with Tao, because I have seen what words do to people, and they do a lot. Whatever you say you are, is what you are. I believe the mouth is the rudder and can steer us in any direction we allow it to take us.

As far as the Buddha, he definitely was more like Christ. Even Zen Buddhism doesn't capture all that the Buddha said. How can one follow Buddha and believe words have no necessity to help us attain knowledge? If knowledge comes from ourselves and nothing in the external how would one digest the Wisdom of the Four Noble Truths which Buddha observed? Anyway, I think words mean a lot, and thats why I don't think its foolish to believe that a book can bring peace, understanding, and wisdom to a person.

P.S. I do love Buddha, and I think many Christians can learn from him and the meditation that a lot of Buddhists practice. I see many churches think bowing and closing ones eyes for a minute will do anything. It takes time and patience to hear from God.

Peace out

BH4C

The Stoned Philosopher

Actually if you read all of the tao te ching lao tzu pretty much describes the tao as "the way" and as a force as in the force of nature, the thing is its pretty much unexplainable and unfathonable yet it exists. He doesnt describe it as a deity that is sentient. And also,the more you know about the tao the less you understand it which means instead of thinking about it just live then it will flow through you. Taoism doesnt concern itself with ideas or dogmas and encourages open mindness and tolerance which is why i like it so much. Yet the mindset of christianity tends to be focused on ideas,dogmas,giult and a dualistic world. In that state of mind you will never find peace because your grasping at things instead of just relaxing and "ride the tao" so to speak.
I say just go on what you believe deep down inside,if taoism isnt for you fine,find your own way.Oh yeah ,the christian god still reminds me of a evil demented alien race,even the gnostic christians say that the "god" in the old testament is evil and demented.

The Stoned Philosopher

bonghits4christ

Yeah I know that tao te ching means way of life. I also am aware that taoists don't believe in God as I would think of the supreme entity, but my last post was a little long and I didn't have enough time to elaborate. Well I dont really have the time at the moment either, but I just wanted to let you know that I know enough about taoism to understand that it believes in wisdom from within ourselves, excluding dogma, much like hyperbolic doubt Rene Descartes believed in which zen buddhists still hold true about the world of appearance as it looks and feels to the extensions of our minds; the senses. I don't think Christianity in its purest most Christ-like state does propogate dogma, or religious ritual. And I'm sorry to hear that you feel the Christian God is cruel.

Peace out

BH4C

The Stoned Philosopher

One of the main reasons why i dont worship anything: because the object of your worship could not exist at all and if it existed,it could exist in a form that is opposite of your preconcieved notion of a "god". My personal view of the Christian god is a god of dogma and ideas designed to prevent free thinking and promote a duaistic world in which "his" notions of good and evil rule all and go unopposed.
But they are some merits to gnostic christianity,in which they dont worship the "god" as to speak but worship the "holy spirit" which could be equevilent to the wiccan god and goddess or the tao (even though taoists dont suppost to worship the tao and wiccans dont suppost to worship the god's and goddess's they have)
All in all my opinion of the christian religion is that the gnostic christian sect is the best philosophy in the overall christian "framework" that will result in happiness and liberation.

The Stoned Philosopher