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420budz

i claim Baptist. at one time i considered myself agnostic. i didnt know what to believe. sometimes i believed there was a God and sometimes i didnt.but then when i looked further into it...i found that there is scientific evidence to back up the Bible. but even as a Baptist i still know that in Heaven...there are no baptists, catholics, presbyterians or methodists....just children of God. I know that God isnt going to condemn you because of what church you went to....because He saw that you worshipped Him.

 

cepheus

No, he just condemns you for being born in the first place. Then you have to accept "salvation" from a supposed messiah who died 2,000 years ago and worship someone else's god for your whole life, not to mention follow a bunch of silly rules, all because of some original sin that was supposedly committed during prehistory by someone you had no chance of ever even meeting.

ilovealbertwalker

he doesnt condemn you fore being born, being born is a blessing. did anyone ever tell you that god forgives you? its not your fault original sin was done, all god wants you to do is accept him, the things in the bible are not so much applied today its a different time. how is he someone elses god? the jewish people had heard of the coming of a messiah way before he came, would that make him evryones god at that time, even now?? and god already knows you before your born. i dont know where you scooped this up but ok,.,

420budz

yeah your not condemned for being born. its a blessing that God has given you time. and after time...eternity. and like ilovealbertwalker said...its not our fault Adam and Eve sinned. we couldnt stop that. and true we wont meet Adam and Eve here because like you stated cepheus...that was prehistory. but theres alot of people whom ill never meet that would seem like pre history to me. Albert Einstein, or Babe Ruth, or Elvis Presley, or Adolf Hitler are a few.

cepheus

According to Christians, an aborted baby will automatically go to heaven. Yet someone who lives a normal lifespan, lives an honest life of integrity, helps many people along the way, leaves a big positive impact, but follows a different religion, or none at all, will suffer for eternity in hell. How is being born a blessing? Moreover, if you were never born it wouldn't make any difference to you, so that opinion seems rather awkward.

I scooped it up from the book that you apparently live your life by. I was raised in a conservative Baptist family, going to church nearly every sunday morning, sunday night, and wednesday night for the first 18 years of my life. I hate to tell you this, but I know more about your religion than you think I do.

 

Logos

If only baptists could actually model their life after John, the world would be a better place, that guy was a badass!

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Brother Logos
The more I learn, the less I know. | Truth doesn't change, only our perception of it does.
THC Ministry | The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ | The Reluctant Messenger of Science and Religion
True religion is real living, living with all one's soul, with all ones goodness and righteousness. --Albert Einstein

dedbr

My mother was raised in a Catholic orphanage from the time she was born until her eighteenth birthday. She was molested almost the whole time by the nuns who were in charge of the orphanage. After all of this, she still took me to a Catholic church and tried to show me the "way". She also told me she didn't ever want me alone with the preists because they were all pedophiles. What was I supposed to think? My mother was abused all that time and she still tried to get me to believe in something besides a big dead universe where their is nothing.......

After I grew older, I tried to understand religion, but I began to realize that they all basically said the same thing, just in different words. The one thing that really got to me was they were constantly talking about the good works the church does, but it seemed to me that they were more concerned with material wealth than helping their fellow man. That's what I got out of reading the bible. Help your fellow man. Isn't that what Jesus preached? To love your fellow man and help him as you would your own family?

I tried out a few different belief systems and felt the same about them all, money grubbing bastards that say they are doing the Lords work when in reality they use the money for the personal glory of the church, building the exact same idols that jesus said not to preach to. Jesus taught them how to pray when he said lock yourselves away in a closet and recite the Lords Prayer. That's all that's required of you to attain eternal salvation. Just ask for it.

If there is a god, he may be perfect, but humans are not. They say that this is the word of god and then "interpret" it the way they want to. The modern bible we use today for christianity is two books actually, the jewish version and the Gospels that were written years after his death with second hand information that certainly doesn't apply to the times we live in now. The greater the Apostles made jesus look, the easier it was to start the church. But why, pray tell, leave out Gospels that were written by the other apostles? Because they didn't want anything to contradict the way they wanted Christianity to be. If it is the words of the son of god then why not let us decide which is important and which is not? Why not let us see the whole of the Gospels and then let us see the light in our own time and our own way? Because it didn't follow the plan they had laid out for world religious domination.

To me that's all religion amounts to, control. Why, instead of giving to the poor and pouring the wealth of the church into helping it's patrons, does the money go for the betterment of the church? With so many sufferering from disease and starvation, why don't the churches of the world put their money where their mouth is and help these people?

It's simple to me; control. Money is power and power is control. Now the churches are merely money machines designed to press their religion on the world whether they like it or not. It's a shame to me that what maybe started out as a guidebook for the way to live a better life has been so perverted that it is used as a license to kill or convert anyone who doesn't believe the way they do.

I try to live a decent life. I try to be kind and giving of myself and my time to help others. But I don't try to shove my beliefs down some ones throat. I don't descriminate or persecute those who don't believe the way I do, but I give as good as I get. I've learned though to keep my mouth shut because I have been descriminated against in the work place and in my personal life because I gave my opinion about religion and god and what a bunch of happy horseshit I think it all is.

Now, Viper has said that I sit on the left hand side of the devil, but he's wrong. I sit on the side of reason, believability and good, honest, common sense. To me it's just that simple..........


Some Where In Ded Land.............

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"Starry, starry night, Paint your pallet blue and gray, Look out on a summers day,
With eyes that know the darkness of my soul, Shadows on the hills, Sketch the trees and the daffodils, Catch the breeze and the winter chill, In colors in the snowy linen land......"

Vincent.... Don Mclean


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Logos

Ded, You rock! I truly appreciate that you shared that with us.

I'm sorry for what happened to your mother, and I honestly hope that there is a God who judges those who have harmed another as your mother and countless others who have been harmed in the care of the lords servants. If those people were truly Christians, they would know what Jesus said about anyone who would harm a child.

I keep saying if I didn't believe in divine justice, I'd have to go buy an uzi and put it to work. I truly hope that they all pay for the harm they have inflicted.

On that note, it has also been said that there is but one judge, and Viper ain't it, so I wouldn't worry too much about that Ded, however, if Viper would rather judge than forgive, he will only get that which he gives in the end. You will be judged (if that is what happens) on your selfishness or selflessness. If that ain't the way it works, then I'll see you in hell bro.

Preachers teach that it is by faith one is saved, but I feel that creates an elitism among Christians that simply shouldn't exist. It also doesn't do much for ones ability to do the right thing. Christ's teachings say love your neighbor as yourself, do kind things to those who hate you, love your enemy and pray for them, you get the drift, and to me that sounds a lot like works.

It is too bad that you have to keep your mouth shut Ded. It shouldn't be that way, and it really shows the lack of tolerance that Christians have. That isn't what Christ taught, and if you ask Jesus, those kind of Christians really aren't Christ's followers. If they were, they would do as he taught and be tolerant, non-judgmental, and far more giving and compassionate. Kind of like you are.

Peace and Love my Brother

Dark

Very excellent observation ded. In fact Logos brought up a point in the chat a few nights ago, where he said it makes no sense to have multi-million $ buildings up every thats empty 6 days of the week and have homeless sitting on our streets.

If the people on this Earth were as religious as most claim to be, they wouldn't need places of worship and all these gatherings and have to sit in front of a priest to HEAR the word of God and pretend that because you're in this mighty building, with all these crosses and fragmented glass and the rest of the city along with you, you're doing the "right thing", and it will save them from damnation..............

And BTW, thank you for sharing that with us ded....it's things like that that make me question every single religion out there.

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cepheus

That's one reason I like the pagan religions so much, and particularly Wicca. Church can be in the forest, on a mountain top, a beach, a desert, any place that helps one feel closer to that from which we came.