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Logos

Forcible conversions?

I'm not familliar with that conversion technique myself, and I'd have to honestly state that if I was 100 percent privy to eternal truth, I would only share it with those who were interested in learning about it. I definitely wouldn't beat it into them though.

My method of conversion is to simply state my opinion and let people take it or leave it.

Anyone who deals in forcible conversions needs to be forcibly converted themselves once or twice methinks, so in that sense, I suppose I could be said to be in favor of forcible conversion...

I just defeated my whole point didn't I?

Peace and Love

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Brother Logos
The more I learn, the less I know. | Truth doesn't change, only our perception of it does.
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Trocisp

Forcible conversions are...

Forced conversion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Logos

I see, yeah, I'm not down for beating religion into people. Even if I knew absolute truth, I still wouldn't be down for that. Of course I also believe that to people who are evil in nature, heaven would be hell. People gravitate towards that which they resonate with. People righteous in nature end up in a righteous place, people evil in nature end up in an evil place. In more of a karmic sense than a judgment sense. If judgment is the case, I tend to believe that you judge yourself from a position of knowing right where the line between evil and righteousness lays. However, I'm quite possibly wrong on all counts...

It seems to me that most of the instances cited were governments forcing people to convert to the state religion.

Of course I'm not one of those Christians who believe that Christ is the only path to God. I believe Jesus the man was able to purify himself enough that he could become the vessel that the Christ, or God's Love could manifest to men and provide a pattern to follow to attain Christ hood one and all.

To me following Christ means less Jesus worship, and more acting as Jesus the Christ taught we should towards each other. Did Christ ever forcibly convert anyone? If he didn't then at least the Christians have no excuse to employ such tactics.

Boy, it's too bad Mullymaster didn't stick around to see just how popular his thread would become... over 100 posts so far...

Peace and Love

RockTheGanj

IF God is all-powerful then couldn't he have granted us the miracle of perfect presservation of his holy text ? I mean , if it was really so important. If he is all-powerful then He chose not to preserve the original text, so apparently my atheism is part of His plan. . . if He is real, which there isn't any compelling reason to believe, outside of an emotional earning, which by no means counts for evidence.

Bart Ehrman wrote a book called misquoting Jesus, it's a good read. It's amazing how much has been changed in the manual copying of the first few hundred years of christianity. The fact is that the changes are in the vast majority of cases an attempt to make it more civilized or less confusing. The originals were certainly not as enlightened as the copies most common in America today.

"Let ye who among you who is without sin cast the first stone", is not original (and is arguably the best and most morally uplifting stories in the entire anthology, Old and New Testament)

Logos

How does God's all powerfulness take into consideration free will of people?

If God gave us the gift of free will, then held someone with evil intent from their evil plans, then it wouldn't really be free will...

Peace and Love

 

Trocisp

Would a truly Benevolent Omnipotent being (who was aware of the suffering) not simply allow free will but not allow hard to come to others as a result? Perhaps by moving the person to another, identical (in every way), place, with fake humans (an omnipotent being would have this power). Where no harm could befall other, real humans?


Does it seem like an extreme measure to take to ensure that a few humans don't die/aren't harmed? Yes - to mortals. However an all powerful being would just "will" it, and it would happen. A completely fake planet for every "evil" person, they'd never know the difference...

t-1000

Simple, there are good people and bad people.

They need to be mixed together so the bad people can see an example of goodness and decide if they want to accept it. The good people need to see bad people to learn how to deal with the temptation of being bad. Nobody is pure bad or good, they need to see and experience the contrast.

I'm not an athiest or religious person. The simple fact is that there is no way logical way to disprove god. As well, religion cannot deny science. So, you can simply say god created everything the way it is, but limited our perspective to purposely confuse us, so our personal "nature" would surface over time.

What if god created our bodies but not our "spirit"... boom, you have a perfect theory for god needing to test us.

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t-1000

People who believe in forceable conversion should be shot.

Trocisp

t-1000, then you're not talking about God. God is omnipotent and Omniscience. Most stories describe God as Benevolent as well.

If you take away Omniscience from "God," he's no longer "God." He's.... something that's not God.

Just the same, if you take away "Hair" from "Mammal," you no longer have Mammals, you have... something different.

Jazz Janga

God vs Atheism? Belief in sky-fairies vs nonbelief.

There's no evidence whatever supporting religion or the existence of god. There is, in fact, no competition between atheism and religion. One is belief in something with no support or evidence. The other is the rational choice, which is, simply, not believing.

If you believe without evidence, you must equally believe anything, no matter how irrational. And your belief is therefore meaningless.