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Triklino

I don't consider that being our own gods, I consider that you exerting your self control. You realized that thinking and living this way was going nowhere, so instead of taking the easy way out (To keep sliding down into depression) you fixed yourself and you changed it. The way you phrased could be considered blasphemy if the wrong person read it, and religious people get kinda crazy. You're just making a transition in terms of your "world view". When you have a pessimistic world view everything hurts, everything is dark and is depressing. However, when you start to make that transition to an optimistic world view, you notice the good things, you notice things that you wouldn't have even cared about before.

Now, in my opinion, the hardest thing to do is to not be too optimistic and too pessimistic. Living life like everything is good and righteous will only break you down in the end. It's not possible to live that way. It's hard to find a middle ground, but once you do hold onto it.

As far as the religious issue of the post is concerned.... I hope I addressed that earlier

 

Jesus Petrucci

Perhaps "God" wasn't the best choice of word. This should probably be in the philosophy forum. I'm not saying there cannot be a God, an all holy creator. I just think that there are energies that connect us to the world around us and I wonder how far that realationship goes. I read the whole Bible and was confirmed as a Lutheran but we should all have doubts and wonder because noone really knows, that's why it's called faith, Peace to all I'm glad this is getting discussion.

imported_sir smoke a lot

I don't know what this discussion has to do with God but yea I agree with this post. If you focus your attention on something happening and really believe in it then it is very likely to happen. If you focus on being happy and positive you will be; if you focus on being negative and depressed then you will be. Think about the professional athlete who peeks in his early years as he is determined and fearless, then falls off for a number of years because he feared falling off, then makes a return to the top later in his career because he focused on returning to the top. We ultimately control our world and what our experience in this world.

Logos

I have some interesting points to make here, but no time to make them properly, I'll have to come back to it later, but I just wanted to say for now that your question and thoughts remind me of the movies "The Secret" and "What The Bleep Do We Know".

The point in short is that you are a tiny molecule of God, complete with God power if you believe. The scripture that supports this is Jesus saying that we could do all that he had done, even greater things, even the least among us, if we but "believe".

Your belief is what gives you the powers of God, and while most Christians would argue that it is blaspheme, try reading The Aquarian Gospel linked in my signature, and you might get a better understanding of where I'm coming from. In it Jesus talks a lot like the modern Quantum Physicists today are.

__________________
Brother Logos
The more I learn, the less I know. | Truth doesn't change, only our perception of it does.
THC Ministry | The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ | The Reluctant Messenger of Science and Religion
True religion is real living, living with all one's soul, with all ones goodness and righteousness. --Albert Einstein

glorious

The cosmos? I don't know if that's where you're trying to go with this...technically we are all made up from star dust and everything else around you as well. So, in that sense everything is connected to this energy...

I like your ideas though. Whenever I envision an afterlife I think of it as your consciousness moving forward rather than the concept of heaven and hell. Everyone controls their own destiny. (I'm not saying this is my view per-se, it's just something I can envision..most of you probably know from some of my previous posts that I am agnostic)....

 

Trocisp

I can't wait, I love your posts.

What the Bleep Do We Know is a fictional. It's much like the Da Vinci Code.

James Randi (One of the most renowned skeptics among our circles) called it "a fantasy docudrama" and a "rampant example of abuse by charlatans and cults."

I can most assuredly assure you we are not tiny molecules.

When you say "The Scripture" you're referring to the Aquarian Gospel, correct? As a favor (mostly to me, but in general) could you make note of that in the future? It's similar (to many "mainline" Christians and Objective Outsiders) to Mormons calling The Book of Mormon Scripture. While it's true to them, it requires some clarification outside of those circles.

I've still only gotten around to my first skim of it, I need to go back through for fact-checking (although I suspect I already know what I'll find - the same as I do in all "scriptures") and an intensive read.

We're made of the stuffs of former stars, this is true. Almost every element in the universe other than Hydrogen or Helium was fused in the cores of super massive spheres of plasma undergoing nuclear fusion (more often known as stars ), at some point, these stars ran out of fuel and exploded, making the nebula that led to the eventual (through a few generations) formation of stars similar to our very own Sun, with enough heavy elements to make rocky planets and (apparently) life. Although, that doesn't mean that we're connected through any form of energy. In fact, I'd be remiss to say that matter is inherently connect to other matter merely through having similar points-of-origin.

I'm agnostic as well. Although I had no idea you were.

Hello!!

Logos

Point taken Trocisp, I'll be sure to try and differentiate between The Holy Bible (KJV usually) and The Aquarian Gospel in the future. Though there is very little covered in The Holy Bible that isn't covered in The Aquarian Gospel. The latter being more thorough in scope.

The only reason you love my posts so much is my proper use of capitalization...

Think figuratively when I say we are merely molecules of God, I could have probably thought up a better term than that, but I was in a rush. In an effort to be more clear, if God were the ocean, we are like water vapors, we originate from the ocean and are destined to return to the ocean. We are little tiny bits of God stuff, we come from God and we are destined to return to God. Unless of course we choose otherwise for ourselves. Everything I have read tells me that God respects your choice in this regard.

Of course, it is probably important to make it clear that you come from a scientific angle Trocisp, I tend to come from a spiritual or religious angle. Opposites attract which is probably why I love your posts too...

So in your review of Bleep, are you saying that it is purely fiction, or mostly fiction? I found it quite thought provoking with regard to how our beliefs shape our reality, is it mistaken in that Quantum Physics is telling us that our beliefs are far more powerful than we might believe? I haven't seen The Secret, but have read the book and it says that very same thing. Which is why I brought them up.

My favorite quote in the movie comes early on and I don't recall the name of the guy who said it, but it went something like "Not only is the universe stranger than you think, it's stranger than you can think".

In Jesus' (love that name btw) original post, he makes it clear that he felt his thoughts were what transformed his life for the better. Thought precedes all action and has a great deal to do with how one views their life situation. His friend sees only the bad while he strives to see the good. His friends life spirals towards bad (because that is what his thoughts are centered on), while he sees the good and his life seems better for it, and it is even more significant that he came from the same place his friend is currently.

This is a central theme of What The Bleep Do We Know. Wayne Dyer in his "Power of Intention" lectures describes how with a certain kind of microscope you can see that every living thing is made up of cells, and if you get a more powerful microscope you can see that those cells are made up of molecules, (for clarity sake, everything is made up of molecules, even non living things) and an even more powerful microscope will reveal that molecules are made up of atoms, and an even more powerful microscope reveals that atoms are made up of what he called Quarks, and that if you viewed the Quark, it was one thing, but if you looked away, it became something else, it was affected by thought. If that is the case, and thought can affect that which makes up everything, then thought can affect everything at the most basic level we can currently perceive with our technology.

Jesus stated that God and the Kingdom of Heaven reside within us, and that they can't be seen with the eyes. That they are smaller than a mustard seed. (KJV paraphrased) If that is the case, then would it be feasible to state that the Quark is not nearly as far removed from God as a cell, maybe if we could see what the Quark is made of we would find that all is really illusion and that there is no matter as such. All is really energy at it's most basic level. Wasn't it Max Plank who stated that there is no matter as such?

Is consciousness energy, or matter? Particle or wave? How about light?

To sum up, your thoughts have a very profound effect upon your experience of life. The Secret claims that the universe (or God if you will) is really just a great big wish granting machine, and one should be very careful what they wish for in that light...

In the end, from the birth canal to the grave, all you really have are your choices, and your choices are all that you get to take with you when you leave, so make them good ones.

Peace and Love

Jesus Petrucci

The quantum mechanics and quantum physics discussed in What the Bleep isn't necessarily fictitious, it's theoretical. A good book to check out if your into that kind of stuff or just want to learn about it is The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene. Logos, I really enjoy your ideas and they are definetely helping me develop my own thoughts. Also thanks for your ideas as well Troscip, critisism can be taken two ways defensively, in which you learn nothing, or openly. Your critisism is definetely making me think and forcing me to fill the holes in my ideas and making me try to figure out better ways to explain them. Thanks to all for the posts, this is definetely a beneficial conversation.

Trocisp

Going through this afterwords, it occurs to me that this post took me well over an hour to write. Well over an hour.

Thanks man.

Aww, you know me far too well.

I suppose that's much like the Purple Elf under the bed, can't be proven or disproven.

Although it's an interesting concept, more a Hindu philosophy than Christian, though.

I was hoping it was for my spelling and grammar.

Some of the things it says are true, however it is (majority) fiction and misrepresentation of facts. I'll give you an example.

Example statement; "The hotter it is in your house, the more likely you are to be robbed, therefore, you should turn up your Air Conditioning."

Explanation; The statement in Blue is a true statement, however it's been misrepresented. In fact, the logic behind the statement is almost sound. In the winter, less crime in general occurs because people are in their house more, less burglaries specifically because so many are home in the evenings and nights, rather than out and about.

The Statement in Red is an uneducated extrapolation through multiple relays of information or deliberate misinformation on the part of any number of people.

This is one of those misinformations I've outlined above, although more likely deliberate misinformation due to the type of misinformation that this is.

Interesting and factual are not always on in the same, my dear friend.

Sir Arther Eddington was the one.

No argument. The way one chooses to see their surroundings effects how they live. No argument there, none at all.

Still doesn't mean that one has the power of, or is a, God. In any way-shape-or-form.

Okay - this is going to require me to make a post far longer than Marijuana.com will allow me to to explain it, in it's most abriged form. So I'm going to keep it so simple that it borders being incorrect.

Size; Largest to Smallest.

Macroscopic (everything large enough to see with the naked eye) -> Molecules -> Atoms -> Protons / Neutrons* (Each of Which are made up of different types of the following) -> (now it gets complicated) Fermions (Quarks (6 Types which in combination determine the type of Subatomic Particle) / Boson (Electrons fall into this category)

At that point, it gets a bit fuzzy for me, in that I believe Fermions / Bosons are made up of String / Filament waves, but I'm not sure. Particle physics gets really complex around this level, and while I understand the theory behind it the math is much much more difficult.

*Note that the Electron was left out of the Proton / Neutron section because contrary to what you learn in grade school it is a "Fundamental" particle rather than a larger one like a proton or a neutron.

Sadly, though, thought cannot effect the world around us in the way he speaks.

Many would quantify that as a state of mind (similar to Buddhist Enlightenment).

1mm is a far cry from microscopic. Had it meant microscopic Sand would've been a better choice of words.

Luke 13:18-9, Mark 4:30-2, Matthew 13:31-2 and Thomas 20

Each of which compares the kingdom of heaven to a mustard seed insomuch as it is small within the heart of a believer but it grows. That's why they chose Mustard Seed, rather than Sand. Because in each passage the seed is referenced to grow (I, of course, cannot speak 100% to this, but I speak with extensive knowledge of biblical history and reading the good book many times over).

Okay, you've actually hit on something here, without realizing it. It's incorrect, but not completely.

Matter is made up of, on it's most fundamental level, of waves. Just like Photons (light / Electromagnetic Spectrum), however it's not "God" that is this energy, so much as Strings (read: String Theory and M-theory and such) that reverberate in certain frequencies. The reverberations are what determines the make-up of the "Fundamental" particles I discussed earlier.

Consciousness is elusive... and debatable.

The brain is a simple (well, very, very, very, very complex, in fact) interaction of biochemicals (and very small electric charges). My personal opinion is that consciousness is only a result of those biochemical interactions, some people believe it's divine will and other believe it's something not divine, but transcending the physical form.

So, if you are asking me for my opinion based on the limited facts we have about "consciousness," I'd say it's simply a result of the biochemical interactions taking place in our brains. I'm sure others would say it's a "Soul," and other still have other answers. But no scientific evidence has been produced to support anything but answer, to be frank.

*wishes really hard*

Nope, still only have 138.82 in my paypal account.

I whole heartedly agree.

Hump time?

Trocisp

You're confusing the term "theoretical" with the term "pipe dream."

My intent isn't to criticize, merely to correct errors as I see them arise.