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nornerator

Let us clear up Atheist Vs. Agnostic. These are not mutually exclusive terms. There are no atheists that exist that are also not agnostic. Being agnostic simply means that one acknowledges that it is impossible to prove a negative 100%. Being an atheist simply means one does not believe in theology. This next bit I read somewhere, but cannot remember where.

It is impossible to prove that unicorns do not exist, yet nobody seriously believes that they exist. To acknowledge that it is impossible to know, one would say they are agnostic about the existence of unicorns, but they also know there is no reason to believe that unicorns exist, thus one is also atheistic in regards to the existence of unicorns.

Although it is possible to be agnostic without being an atheist, any intelligent atheist (most are) is also agnostic. Anybody who claims to know with absolute certainty that there is no god is a fool, this however does not make god any more real than a unicorn, or for that matter a unicorn-leprechaun hybrid.

 

pkster8235

I agree.. I once considered myself Christian, then Atheist, and now and finally, Agnostic

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Buzzby

They are mutually exclusive terms. Atheism is not a disbelief in theology. Atheism is the theory or belief that God does not exist. Agnosticism is the belief that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena. An agnostic, unlike an atheist, is a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

And yet 95% of the people in the world believe in God or gods.

Believing with absolute certainty that there is no God is the definition of being an Atheist.

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Trocisp

I believe Buzzby summed it up well enough, but to elaborate...

Prefix A - Not. Theism - Belief in god.

Atheism, Not Belief in God. (As in, belief of no God...)

dedbr

I believe in the concept of a power greater than myself. I also believe that this planet is the thing that gives us life, and if I'm gonna believe in something, number one will be something I can see and figure out for myself........ Earth First......

The power greater than myself is the universe we live in. From the smallest speck of sand to the monstrous galaxy's we see in the night sky. Of course I believe in something more powerful than myself. I think I'd be a fool if I didn't. But greater a fool perhaps, to believe in just one..............


Some Where In Ded Land.............WE are not alone.............

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"Don't talk to me of pacts. There are no pacts between lions and men. Wolves and lambs can enjoy no meeting of the minds, they are all bent on hating each other to the death."

Homer

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nornerator

As I pointed out, you can believe that there is no god but know that it is impossible to know with 100% certainty. This is not terribly hard to understand, an atheist does not believe in a god but knows that you cannot know for sure,

A person who is not an atheist but is agnostic is somewhat indifferent, does not lean one way or another because they feel it is impossible to know either way.

Additionally the number of people who believe something has nothing to do with it being right or wrong. If you were to use this to justify an argument you might as well take it a step further and say that since christianity is the worlds largest religion, it must be the right religion, take it a step further and say since roman catholicism is the biggest sect of christianity, that roman catholicism is the truth of the universe.

The amount of people who believe an argument have no bearing on its truth, the only thing that matters to the truth is, evidence.

sterbo

And that's because they do exist. Speaking first hand of course.
Fair weather, mid day. Course, south by southwest whence over the bows came he and his wife to greet this crew of old and young. No measure such as that has ever been taken of me since.
Perhaps it was my faith and unerring eye as he held forth his justice. I bowed my head, to him and his Father, and he was kind.
Bile to swallow, a dunking that won't be forgotten,
their smile, and I am forever more,
a shellback...
"He prayeth best who loveth best,
All things both great and small:
For the dear God, who loveth us,
He made and loveth all."*
.
.
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*Coleridge

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Ler

I really liked that sterbo. I've always wanted to ask you what you sailed, so I am, indirectly, and now more directly.

I myself am an Atheist but I don't let that stop me from appreciating things that have anything to do with a god or higher power. A few of my friends who are Atheists treat things that even mention god as if it were raw sewage.

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macphearsome

I knew Trocisp would be all over this topic.

My problem is that we appear to have a lot of different words to describe what should be a simple enough concept - a lot of people simply don't believe in God.

We have lots of technical variations on the definitions. I guess I'm technically an "agnostic" because I'm not gonna say 100%. Like, I'm positive there isn't a God. But 100% is a pretty big number, you know what I mean? I'm positive that unicorns don't exist (trotting out the unicorn example.. again... can we choose another mystical beast? this one is getting old) but I'm not giving that 100% either, just for comparison.

It's funny, it comes down to politics, almost. A lot of people don't want to say that they are atheist, maybe because there's a stigma attached to it, maybe because of this technical discrepancy. I've seen the following terms used to describe any sort of absence of religion.

Atheism
Nontheisn
Ignosticism
Irreligion
Theological Noncognitism
Pantheism
"God and I aren't speaking anymore" (a friend of mine described her atheism this way and I found it hilarious)

Now I know that all of these words "mean different things" technically speaking. What strikes me is that people that choose these terms are struggling to find the exact way to describe their non-religion, and so often they are describing effectively the same thing - they don't let religion affect their lives. They live life while they can, and don't worry about divine consequences or miracles or sins. That doesn't mean they don't have morals, obviously, but they follow societal norms or their own "better judgement."

That's me. For simplicity's sake, and maybe for some sort of solidarity, I choose the word Atheist. The word "agnostic" to me sounds too wishy-washy - I don't want to sound like I just stopped going to church for a week because my cat died or something.

I just... don't believe in God. Seems simple, but apparently now I have to pick my definition carefully for fear of treading poorly on semantics.

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"the only way to achieve certainty is to amputate inquiry"
Marvin Minsky

Trocisp

Again, macphearsome - you've described a whole 'nother type of people with the statement "they don't let religion affect their lives."

Each any everyone one of those things has a different definition.

Atheism is the active disbelief in a deity.
Nontheism is the lack of a belief.
Ignosticism is the position that every theological position assumes too much about the concept of God (including Agnosticism).
Irreligion is a lack of religion, indifference to religion, or hostility to religion. (This can encompass Atheism, Agnosticism, Nontheism and Ignosticism)
Theological Noncognitism is the way of thinking that the very concept of God is not thoughtfully meaningful. (similiar to Ignosticism).
Pantheism is the belief that everything is part of God. (The opposite of Atheism, really. Absolutely polar opposite)