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Hashishi

It's probably best we clear this one up now: you're an advocate of the presumption that freedom of religion is the case in point, here? I'm not.

Your analogy will require some expansion. I may just as well say my balls are itching, raise my eyebrows and leave it at that.

I'm still waiting for you to clarify the position that action regarding religious freedoms should take precedent over the protection of children.

Those arguing for religious freedoms to take precedence over the constitutional protection of individual rights- in this case manifested by the alleged abuse of children, which is lawfully under investigation.

That's a bold statement.

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sterbo

Not the case in point. A case in point.

Is that a Brits' version of a "come hither look"?

Did you ask me directly before for such clarification? If so I must have missed it.
Nevertheless, since I've never taken that position so I'll be happy to mull it over.

Oh yea!
"Born at sea in the teeth of a gale,
the sailor was a dog"...
.

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Hashishi

Yup, points granted. For future reference, I tend to bring my testicles into the equation where obscurity must be met with absurdity.

I didn't need to. If you remember, you're arguing that subscription to religion can negate individual rights- which is pretty much in coordination with the majority of the 'religious freedoms' arguments proposed in this thread, too, so I don't feel like I'm bringing too much more to the table.

Bernie420

The practioners of most religions tend to focus only on their brand of religion and ignore all others. In thier view, the religion of their choice is best and all others are inferior. So why study an inferior belief system?

troublemaker_42

So, how do people feel about the fact that roughly 10% of the children taken from the compound show evidence of broken bones, many occuriing at very young ages? Is it proof of abuse? No.... but its certainly another bit of information that could be used to support such allegations

Sect's boys may have been abused too, agency says - CNN.com
Now, I know as well as anyone kids break bones once in awhile....but multiple fractures on very young children should raise eyebrows no matter where they occur, inside a compound or across the street from you. So, we don't have PROOF of child abuse (yet) but I don't think I'm wrong for speculating that such abuses seem to likely have occurred. If intervviews suggest it, medical records or proof of broken fractured bones suggest it, multiple teens who are or have been pregnant suggest it, multiple teens married to the same man suggest it.....well, I haven't exactly been exposed to any information, at this point, that sets my mind at ease concerning the potential treatment of children and/or young adults within this group. Almost daily, we're exposed to a little more info, and the info we've been exposed to doesn't seem to be an omen of good news to come at this point. Again, I'm offering to eat my words if I turn out to be completely wrong about the group, but presently, every bit of news released adds to the case that they did indeed routinely violate the law wthin the compound. No one answered the questioned I posed several pages back.....Do religious beliefs allow members of a group to disregard laws concerning child abuse/neglect/abandonment, polygamy, age of consent laws, pedophilia laws, etc? If the answer is no, why are we having this discussion, and if the answer is yes, what is to be made of the rights of individuals forced into this lifestyle? By being born or recruited into this group, do they have fewer rights than the rest of us? At least one convicted pedophile was a member of the FLDS....are tyhere more? How do we know this group doesn't merely provide cover for people who want to violate the law beyond the prying eyes of their neighbors or law enforcement?

__________________
You CANNOT help the poor by destroying the rich.
You CANNOT strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You CANNOT bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You CANNOT lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.
You CANNOT further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You CANNOT build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence.
You CANNOT help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.
I'll stick to my guns, money, religion and freedom...you can keep the change

 

sterbo

LOL, Points shared. Love the reciprocated levity

You said:
I responded:
My point was simply that you ought not get thrown off kilter because another plot line was contextural to the topic at hand.

It's not an argument. It's a statement of fact.
Subscription to religion can, in fact, negate individual rights.
I have not said that I think it, in a general sense, is right or wrong. That's for the individual to decide.

If you're looking for an "argument" you're barking up the wrong tree my friend...
.

Trocisp

In a directly related story (that could have its own thread, but this thread seems to fit it a bit better, honestly, since it's the same topic).... The Associated Press: Church leader arrested on sex charges in northeast N.M.

sterbo

I don't see the correlation at all.
The primary issue controlling this thread is polygamy as practiced by religious groups, in this case, the FLDS.
The Lord Our Righteousness Church that you reference makes no claims to religious freedoms based on polygamy; rather it's a breakaway sect who's leader claims - "I am the embodiment of God. I am divinity and humanity combined."
.
.
.

Trocisp

I thought the primary issue in this thread wasn't polygamy, but the underage girls. At least, that's what the majority of posts I responded to and responded in were about...

sterbo

dedbr -
"Freedom of religion. How far should it go? Do polygamists have the right, that is guaranteed to all of us, to practice their religion as they see fit? Or is an intervention by other's, (law enforcement), something that you agree with?"


Hmmm, no doubt there's something Freudian about that...*


*just a bit of humor Tro