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Trocisp

Yes, however, if you read the thread polygamy is only mentioned in relation to the fact that these children have been taken out of their homes by the Government Officials/Agents.


Certainly.

 

Logos

I haven't caught myself up on this thread because I don't have that kind of time, but I wanted to mention that I saw part of a show last night. It was some reality series called "Secret Lives of Women" on WE TV, and the particular episode dealt with this subject. The impression I got from the two women that I saw interviewed was that the women are basically baby making machines, they have no choice in any matter, their marriages are arranged by the family prophet, and a lot of the marriages mentioned were to closely related cousins and uncles and whatnot.

I don't think we have much to fear from this group as a society because all of the inbreeding will create a genetic bottleneck, or a new race of superdupermutants.

My only judgmental opinion on this subject at this point is that the women are oppressed to the point of harm. They can't leave if they want to and are not allowed to make their own choices. One of the women wanted to go to college to become a doctor, but when the family prophet (her uncle) was asked if she was allowed to do that, he had a vision that she was to marry a man 30 some years her senior.

The morning after they consummated the marriage, at the breakfast table he commented that a new dog was better than a new wife because they were more loyal.

I have always stated here that people should have the freedom to choose for themselves whatever religion suits them best as long as it doesn't cause anyone any harm. What I saw in that program was the harm factor of the fundamentalist LDS religion. The women of that religion have no choices, they have no freedom, and to deny anyone the most basic of human rights in the name of religion, is, well, just wrong in my opinion.

Peace and Love

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Brother Logos
The more I learn, the less I know. | Truth doesn't change, only our perception of it does.
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sterbo

With all due respect brother Logos, WE TV is not exactly an objective source for serious news.
In this particular case WE've a tv show based on 2 woman who are either objective with only the best of intentions or we have 2 women with an axe to grind.
Either way it's not terribly relevant unless those that differ have the opportunity to rebut.
Based on WETV?
Perhaps the real good to come out of this difficult incident will be if we can have access to both sides so they can go head to head in a series of serious discussions and/or debates.

Judging the situation based solely on one side of the story has minimal relevance to me.
Agreed

Maybe, maybe not. The jury's still out.

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dedbr

It seems odd to me that these "opressed women" who don't have a say were the ones chosen to represent them in an interview on CBS news.........

Seems like the old guys would of had a hissy fit if it was even suggested that they do it................

Of course, that's just my opinion......

Tro.....I agree with sterbo on this one.......I just don't see the relevance of the article.........


Some Where In Ded Land...........

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sterbo

SAN ANTONIO (AP) -- When Texas child welfare authorities released statistics showing nearly 60 percent of the teen girls taken from a polygamist sect's ranch were pregnant or had children, they seemed to prove what was alleged all along: The sect commonly pushed girls into marriage and sex.


Photos from a Web site launched by the sect show scenes during and after the raid...........

But in the past week, the state has twice been forced to admit "girls" who gave birth while in state custody are actually adults. One was 22 and said she showed state officials a Utah birth certificate shortly after she and more than 400 minors were seized from the West Texas ranch in an April raid.
The state has in custody two dozen other young mothers and others whose ages are in dispute.
If most of them also turn out to be adults, it would be a severe blow to the state's claim of widespread sexual abuse.
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Bernie420

I just read in todays paper that some of the "girls" are actually in their twenties. How the hell do you put a 20 year old in foster care? If it turns out that a good many of these "girls" are, in fact, adults then its just another case of knee jerk, rush to justice, damn the facts, Texas justice.

Trocisp

Did I make the"big if" too literal?

Maybe the Texas officials over reacted, but if even one child has been forced into an non-consenting marriage or relationship because of institutionalized arranged marriages than the raid, while conducted improperly, was still worth conducting.

Bernie420

So, its okay to strip the children away from innocent adults because someone in a group has violated the law? Isn't that guilt by association? Lets view this in another manner. If you're with a large group of people and one of them attacks an old lady, should you be charged with assault and battery along with the offender?

sterbo

No, though it sure took you long enough.
Read back thru the many posts jumping to conclusions (if you must) to realize this has been one of the major points some of us have been trying to make from the beginning.

It's called "Ben Tre Logic",
"'it became necessary to destroy the town to save it"
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*anon

Trocisp

Were these other people charged? No.
The children were held until the validity of the claims of child abuse could be confirmed.

I would expect, if I was party to a group of people who kicked the shit out of a woman, I would be held for questioning. That's not unreasonable.

Oh, and you did say it yourself - these are children being forced to marry adults.
I never said (or, I believe I never said*) that the Texas officials didn't over react.

However, I still think that the raid should've been conducted. More carefully... but still conducted.