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Trocisp

 

sterbo

LOL, there he is again, setting us straight...

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Bernie420

It's happening in Texas and they have their own ways of doing things there. I have some serious issues when they threw a net over the entire compound and took ALL the children. What if only 1 child was abused or what if none of the children were abused? The government has now abused the children who weren't abused by ripping them from their parents. Is this acceptable behavior from our government?

dedbr

Tro....

You have no idea what went on there. You assume that it's about ""old men sticking their wrinkly cocks in little girls". All over the world, every day, people of all ages and ethnic groups have sex. The girls that are chosen for marriage are "teenage" girls and not little girls. If babies were being married to old men, I would disagree, but that's simply not the case.

I'm sorry Tro, but I think you're lack of maturity is showing here. Little girls get it from older men all the time. It's a fact of life. If we are going to make it a prerequisite that they are not children before they have sex, most of the world wouldn't be having sex until their forty.........

I thought when I turned 18 that I was at one with the world and knew all there was to know. Now, at 51, I see that I was a child with childish ideals who really had no concept of what the world and the people who live in it are all about. With age comes a wisdom that a younger person isn't capable of simply because age shows us the important things in life.

And the important thing in this situation is that the government has overstepped it's bounds again. They have disturbed the peace and tranquility of an otherwise peaceful community who just want to be left alone to live their lives as they see fit. No crime, no drugs and no sexual promiscuity. A beautiful, well maintained home and all the love they can hope for.

These are the children who are being abused? I wish all the worlds children could live in such a well structured enviroment. Teenage girls being "fucked" as you said Tro, happens all the time. If it didn't we wouldn't have the teen pregnancy rates that we do.

You're seventeen. Have you ever had sex with a girl younger than you, Tro? If you have doesn't that make you a person who has engaged in pedophilia? Didn't you stick your "wrinkly old dick" in a young girl who wasn't eighteen? By your definition that's when it's OK to have sex, so do you practice what you preach, Tro?

The central issue here to me is government intervention where it's not wanted OR NEEDED! If we continue to allow the government to erode our rights with such bullshit as this, how long will it be until drug use or possesion is a death penalty?

We should be very careful what we accept and what we don't. It shows our ability to think, I believe....


Some Where In Ded Land............Wrinkly dick and all.......

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"Don't talk to me of pacts. There are no pacts between lions and men. Wolves and lambs can enjoy no meeting of the minds, they are all bent on hating each other to the death."

Homer

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Trocisp

Ded...

No, but I know why the compound was raided. There was an tip to CPS. A tip to CPS is why the raid was conducted. I didn't say that is what actually happened.

For instance, you might be arrested for DUI, but if you pass a breathalizer, you're not drunk so there is no DUI... get it? Why you were arrested and whether or not you're guilty are two different things. The same as this, why the compound was raided and whether or not they're guilty - different things to be determined at different times. When children are involved - air on the side of caution and make sure they're not abused.

No, I know it's about old men in power using that to exploit younger girls.

Yes, and if you do it in america, it's illegal. You're a pedophile.

If you're going to make the argument to me that someone at the age of 14 is mature enough to undertake the choice of marriage (a binding contract in FLDS society, which can never be broken) then we have nothing to discuss, you obviously lack the ability or choose to neglect the ability to think critically.

A 14 year old might as well be a baby. Honestly... Ded, you can't be arguing that it's okay because they're about to hit puberty?

Because I'm not okay with people in a position of power exploiting that power to force 14 year old girls into (statistically) abusive marriages?

Yes, and if you do it in america, another fact of life is that you're a pedophile.

Eighteen. Not forty.

Why the arbitrary age choice? Because that's how things in life often are - arbitrary. You have to choose a number to use (and even slightly younger in many places is "okay" or "acceptable" and likely the person wouldn't face charges - but that has to do with the intent of the law).

Then you were a very, very headstrong 18 year old.

I'm fully familiar at the age of 17 that there are a plethora of new things for me to discover. It would be immature and egotistical of me to assume that I know everything at my age.

It's good to see you outgrew that.

Ah, age only allows more time to be shown these things. A younger person exposed to the same cross section of the world as an older person is perfectly capable of being more mature than than an older person - it's a matter of experience.

I don't claim to have this experience, mind you - just clarifying an opinion.

You think they have overstepped their bounds. I think they're acting appropriately to ensure the best interest of these children.

You obviously don't read much about FLDS. FLDS is not a "peaceful community... who just want to live their lives as they see fit," they're a borderline cult that practices pedophilia and abandons boys as young as 12 in cities to live and take care of themselves. How do you think 1 man can have 13 wives? It's not because they're just magically having way more female babies.

No crime? How about Child Molestation and Statutory rape?

Yes - and I rather like the way you paint it...

I don't disagree - but any time those teenaged girls are getting "fucked" by middleaged men, those men are pedophiles too. And they deserve (and often do) go to prison for it. If both people are the same age, it can't exactly be said that one is exploiting the other, can it?

Yes. No. I was 16, so was she. She just happened to be 2 months younger than I was. It's perfectly fine to have sex with someone the age of 16, if you're within the legal limits.

It's even perfectly okay to have sex with a 16 year old if you're 50, as long as you're not abusing your power to do it.

A teacher, for instance, having sex with a student is utterly horrible. In FLDS, all adults are in a position of power over the children in a way much, much different from regular society.

This isn't a situation where the children are allowed to marry these men, this is a situation more akin to being traded like a slave from your father to your husband, with little or no input from the child.

If you think the founding fathers intended freedom of religion to extend to having sex with minors, I'll say it again - you and I have nothing to discuss, because you've either lost the ability to think critically or choose not to.

"Such bullshit as this," being child molestation and rape?

I agree - and the fact that you won't accept the government attempting to protect the well being of children is indicative of your ability or choice of critical thinking...[/quote]

 

dedbr

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. Tro.....

No, you don't. We will maybe find out after all the legal hassles are over with, but all you have is the info released by the law and your pre-conceived notions about what's been going on........

"Lack the ability or choose to neglect the ability to think critically." That doesn't even deserve a response, does it.......

No, I'm arguing that it's a fact that young girls have babies every day. They must have felt like they could make that decision, right? You said you had sex with a 16 year old girl. You broke the law. You would be considered a sex offender in Ohio. Is that right in your case? DID YOU REALIZE THAT YOU WERE BREAKING THE LAW?

Ya know what though? I truly enjoy your input and even agree with you sometimes.......

If it's a matter of experience, then you seem to make the point that some girls may be ready and even prepared for a young marriage?

I tend to agree with you about this. But.......I also think that any guy who is married to thirteen women has a desire for punishment. He'd have to, to put up with thirteen of them........

Do we have to go over this one again? The reason I have doubts in the government is because at my ripe old age I've seen them fuck up so much. Like the Bush video said, "Fool me once.....and I can't remember the rest...." The government has fooled me more than once so I keep a wary eye on everything they do.

My sister worked at CPS in Ohio for awhile. I know how they work and what they consider to be abuse. I say, and she agree's with me, that there is something else going on here besides abuse of teenage girls. CPS has more trouble with the kids that are exposed to meth cookers and the ones burned with cigarettes. They wouldn't have time for this, quite frankly.


Some Where In Ded Land............

Trocisp

Yer killin' me ded!
I've also studied FLDS and LDS in my religious philosophy and religious history courses...

But you are correct, I am going on the same news reports you are...
Not really.
What someone feels and what is reality are often two completely separate issues.

I was not, in fact, breaking the law.

2907.04 Unlawful sexual conduct with minor.

(A) No person who is eighteen years of age or older shall engage in sexual conduct with another, who is not the spouse of the offender, when the offender knows the other person is thirteen years of age or older but less than sixteen years of age, or the offender is reckless in that regard. {§ 2907.04}.

I enjoy your input as well, Dedbr - although I can't think of a single time we've agreed!
Yes, some are. And that is why parents can legally have their sixteen year old marry another person in most states (as young as 14 in Alabama, I believe - but that's a law that's come under some heavy, heavy scrutiny of late).


But, these are not legal marriages, and even if they were, I would still consider it rape because these people are using a position of power to exploit younger children into the sack.



Then he can be punished in prison for Child Abandonment and Failure to Protect.


Not really...

As do I, I just happen to think in this case, they took the correct course of action.

CPS wouldn't have time for 400 potentially sexually abused and brain washed children living in a semi-cult compound on the fringes of society where modern medicine is a rarity and young girls are traded as a commodity?

dedbr

Tro....

Were they well fed? Were they clean? Did they have on good shoes and clothes? Were they eating with their hands and living in a dog cage or closet? These are the types of things that CPS deals with on a daily basis. My sister personally removed two toddlers from a meth house, took them to the hospital, and they tested positive for the god damn meth! People who allow that to go on should be taken out and shot.

With these kind of problems to deal with, it's a wonder to me that they have time to even investigate the case in the first place. "Potentially abused" is the key phrase here. I think it's unlikely that the male children were sexually abused just like I hate to call a married couple, regardless of the ages, to be sex abuse. To me, marriage throws the whole thing out the window.....

As far as young girls being a commodity, when has that become a big deal in our society? We allow young girls to be prostitutes in big cities yet we don't see CPS conducting sweeps to pick them up and put them in foster homes, now do we? If we are going to enforce the laws, we need to enforce them equally, and I just don't see that happening.

To get back to the original question, yes, these people should be allowed to practice their religion as they see fit. Saying that they are wrong to believe this is a great opinion but the reality is it won't change anything. In a year this will be a non story because the kids will be right back where they started, in the compound with the wrinkly old men.......


Some Where In Ded Land................

sterbo