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Roy

"God was not alone, he was surrounded by angels."

Did the angles always exist too?

 

SigourneyReefer

As far as I know, they did. But I could be wrong. The only thing I'm certain of is that Lucifer was exhiled before the creation of man. Which means that angels (whether they were created or always existed) were there before man.

-S. Reefer-

__________________
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but weed will make me invincible.

Roy

So god is the boss of the angles. If they do not do what he wants he punishes them. He created us because he wants to be worshipped. So he designed us with the desire to want to worship him. If we worship another god he will punish us because he is jealous of other gods. Are the angles the other gods? SInce god does not live in our reality how do we know the correct god to worship?
Personally I would prefer a god that does not punish, does not hate what we do and is not the jealous type. That kind of god seems kind of evil.

SigourneyReefer

The angels who did not desire to worship God were cast out with Lucifer. Therefore, there are no "sinful" angels in heaven. So, God does not punish the angels.

In the long run, yes we will be punished for following a "false god". No, the angels are not gods. They are followers of the Christian God. It's not that if you suddenly decide, "Hey, I want to worship Satan" God is going to punish you. He will become jealous, but the only punishment you are sure to face is an eternity in hell. God is not going to punish everybody just because they do not believe in Him. Otherwise, we would have a world filled with people suffering, except the Christians. Which is not true. Although God does not reside in our world, it does not mean there are not facts to support the validity of His being and the Bible. In one of my previous post on this thread I listed a book that gives a lot of factual support to the validity of Christianity. But it is the same with all other religions. There is no one religion that anybody can prove is 100%. It all comes down to making your own educated personal decision. We all choose what we want to believe. If we could prove without a doubt that one religion was correct, we would all be following it. It's all personal decision.

Also, God does hate the sin we commit, but does not hate US for it. He is aware that we are sinners by nature. It's not like He punishes us for every little sin we commit. It's merely a way of trying to keep us from hurting ourselves and others. As your parents or legal guardians might do. It's not that they want to hurt you, they just want to make sure you don't get yourself into trouble and harm yourself/others.

-S. Reefer-

Roy

"He will become jealous, but the only punishment you are sure to face is an eternity in hell."

Be certain you are worshipping the correct god.

Evil uses fear, hate, punishment and lies. Good uses understanding, love, compassion and truth.

 

SigourneyReefer

I'm not sure I completely understand what you're saying.

However, I fail to see how punishment falls under the category of evil. That's implying that we should abolish punishment, because it is evil. If that's the case, then you're saying that we should allow everybody in the world to do whatever they want, whenever they want with no consequences. Meaning pedophiles, rapists, and murderers could roam the streets unchallenged. I'm not sure I could ever agree with punishment being evil. If I misunderstood you, I apologize.

-S. Reefer-

Entrigue2k1

Wow guys, I missed all of this while I was at work....DAMN!!!-(pun intended)

Wouldn't that question the validity of these religions? I still think the reason people believe in different Gods is because of their region. Asians follow Buddha. Sectioned parts of the middle-East we have Muslim, Judaism, and Christianity. Ancient Greeks and Romans believed in Polytheism. Native Americans as well. What does this say to me? Religion was a product of man thousands of years ago to explain the unexplainable. With the advancement of technology and science, we now have answers to alot of those questions. Does this correlate to the declining church attendance world-wide? I'll let you answer that one.

SigourneyReefer

Wow, you guys are wearing me out. So many questions, and I have so little brain power

It is true that worldviews are very regional. Personally I feel this to be a long term product of what happened at the Tower of Babel. The T.O.B. was a tower constructed to reach heaven/God. God did not approve of this, and sent man all across the world. At this point time, man was primarily in only a few largely populated sections. When man became scattered, God also gave them different dialects, so they would not work together and attempt another T.O.B. any time soon. So, man scattered with their different languages to different parts of the world. There man began to adapt to his new living environments. Skin tones changed, languages developed (old ones died, new ones came into being), and naturally from that people would look for something new. I believe it was just a natural order of man in a new location. He is a completely new man, so to speak, so they began looking for completely new things. So, a lot of the religions became designated to those parts of the world where these new men resided.

As for declining church attendance, I cannot fully answer that. As for Christianity, I think a lot of people are beginning to see that they don't need to follow an organized religion to worship or communicate with their God. They can do that in the comfort of their own home, in the car, even when they're on the crapper I personally no longer feel the need to attend church. I feel that in my younger years, I was educated and given all the information I would need from church. Now that my mind has matured, I need information that is not provided in church. I'm looking for more philosophical approaches to Christianity. Also, a lot of people are tired of the hypocrisies that are commonly encountered in organized religion (I know I am). Some feel they would rather talk to God on a more personal note, rather than dealing with the judgements of fellow "believers". Like I said, I can't completely answer that question, but based on my personal feelings towards organized religion I feel that is what is happening. We are living in a more secular world where people are noticing that they can have a very healthy and personal relationship with their God outside of church.

-S. Reefer-

Roy

"However, I fail to see how punishment falls under the category of evil."

Yes, punishment is evil. It uses fear to control and fear is a wicked master.

SigourneyReefer

So you are in fact saying that there should be no punishment for anything? That we should abolish all laws and personal forms of punishment and let everybody do what they want? If that happened, there would no longer be any sense of right and wrong. Children would grow up being unaware that what they did was wrong, and continue to do it. The moral line between right and wrong would become extremely distorted without punishments for wrong doings. Our world would become so much more chaotic than it already is.

-S. Reefer-