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Flyingdonk

Andrew, oddly enough I had you down (before I read this thread) as a borderline or a floating voter.

I see you claim to be a republican or at least next election you intend to vote republican, is it a close choice???

If I asked which out of the following you preferred

B.Clinton v Bush (jnr)

B.Clinton v Bush (snr)

Obama v Bush (jnr)

H.Clinton v McCain

Feel free to answer or not answer, and even add other comparisons if you would. That goes for anyone else who wants to chip their penny (two cents) in.

I will not flame anybody for their answers, especially you Andrew, I am just curious, I promise.

 

Andrew87

I'd probably vote third party, I'm really not a fan of either. If I really HAD to choose between the two, I'd grudgingly pick GWB.

George HW

Same as Bill Clinton vs. Bush jr.

McCain, hands down - I can't stand Hillary.

Based on my answers here it probably seems I'm a die-hard Republican, but I'm really not. I am not opposed to voting for any Democrat, only the ones who are extremely liberal (Obama and the Clintons', for example). However, it is important to note that I would not vote for someone as conversely conservative, either (Tancredo, Gingrich, etc.) Both the extreme left and the extreme right just want to control everything - only in different ways. Although I do agree with the Republicans on the majority of issues, there are some things on their platform that make me roll my eyes (like all the religious-based stuff, for one) and I will also be quick to admit that the free market principle has some serious, serious flaws. To be honest, I'd have liked to see an R nominee with a bit more of a classical conservative/libertarian standpoint (like Paul, with a few adjustments), since I'm really not a huge McCain fan, but I still find him about 1000 times better than the bleeding heart liberal in the other corner.

On the political diamond I'd say I'm on the line between conservative and libertarian - I dislike the "neocon" faction of the GOP as much as anyone else.

JohnBoySmoker

You really only have 2 choices.....an extreme left liberal or a moderate republican.

SacredJellybean

I'm a moderate sort of person, as there are some things I disagree with liberals on (mostly for libertarian or common sense principles, like gun control). I would still rather have a liberal person at the helm (or even an extremely liberal person, cue spooky ghost noises) than someone who is willing to a) compromise his integrity to try to rally more support from the core Republican group when he was once considered an outspoken underdog towards a lot of typical senseless neocon legislation, and b) who would be so willing to step up and continue the same failed policies as president Bush, namely occupation of ground troops in Iraq and tax cuts for the wealthy.

For those of you who are voting McCain, in what ways is he different from President Bush that you like, if any? Just curious. He's said that the Iraq War needs to be handled better, but it doesn't say how on his website. I'm talking about how it would be better compared to the recent year or so of the counter-surgency. Probably just a weak attempt to seem different from Bush, a line he'll have to walk carefully on to maximize his votes.

I also think McCain would make for a terrible diplomat, which is not good in a time like this where we look so bad with this mistake of a war. This is a place where Obama's eloquence and diplomacy potential can serve as a strong point. A vote for McCain is a vote for a bullshitter, tempermental old curmudgeon, and someone who has molded himself to be a more conservative person. Is he really more moderate than Obama? Probably, but not by much anymore.







Hey guys, remember 4 years ago when a guy named John Kerry was running, and every single conservative worth his salt would bash the hell out of him for his trouble deciding issues? Isn't it funny how they're looking the other way now? I respected McCain more when he spoke his mind. I know it's all politics, and Obama is obviously an appeaser in some capacity as well, but his lack of experience comes at an advantage where there's less time for him to appear as a bullshitter. Of course, most of this McCain bullshit seems to have arisen in the past 8 years, so maybe it's more of a level playing field than I thought.

I still would have preferred Kerry, even him in the White House would have been better than the new crimes the Bush administration has committed since 2004.

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"Every age has its peculiar folly and if Charles Mackay, the author of the 19th century classic, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds were alive today he would surely see 'cannabinophobia' as a popular delusion along with the 'tulipmania' and 'witch hunts' of earlier ages. ... I also believe that future historians will look at this epoch and recognize it as another instance of the 'madness of crowds.'"
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Andrew87

I'm not sure whether or not this was directed towards me, but if it was - I expected better from you, SJB.

As I stated, I oppose the extremes of both sides, for many of the same reasons.

I certainly won't disagree, but Obama is just as guilty of trying to have it both ways. Trying to claim that he somehow has the moral high ground in this regard isn't going to fly. You haven't seen Obama go off on his "I support the second amendment" spiel? I'm sure you already know that his voting record says anything but.

As you later wrote yourself, they're both professional bullshitters. I don't understand this attitude that many Obama supporters have alleging that he is somehow anything other than a typical sleazeball politician. I can think of quite a few people I'd rather have as President than McCain, but I can think of even more I'd rather have than Obama.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this display of hypocrisy...

I'm sure some of them are, but that doesn't mean all. In fact, it appears the difference between myself and a great deal of the Obama supporters I have come across is that I am actually able to acknowledge that both of the candidates are full of shit. I'll be one of the first to admit that the candidate I support has flaws, which is something I can't say for the people who act like Obama is some kind of God.

You sure you really want to play this angle, SJB??





Even the beloved Ron Paul questions Obama's motives:


Bottom line: They are both full of it. How 'bout you knock this superficial shit off and discuss the things that actually matter, i.e. WHY you think Obama can better handle Iraq (IMO, claiming that some inexperienced, lifelong-civilian politician has a better military strategy than a former Navy Captain is a complete joke, but I'd still be interested in hearing your rationalization) or WHY you think he would make a better President in regards to other important issues? (economy, illegal immigration, so on/so forth)

I'm really getting sick of Obama supporters (not so much you, SJB, as you have admitted Obama's flaws to an extent) trying to attack McCain's character when they've obviously failed to give their own candidate an equally thorough assessment.

 

Flyingdonk

Thanks for answering my question Andrew.

I personally thought that Clinton was one of the best (modern) Presidents America has had. He was generally respected in the international community, whilst the same could not be said of Bush Jnr, who is seen as an incompetant, inarticulate, puppet for Neo-Conservative policies.

During the Kerry/Bush elections our media were unanimously routing for Kerry, not because he's great, but because the alternative was Bush.

I do not know much about McCain's character or Obama's, so I wont insult or praise either. However from what ive seen on the news and the forums, I think that I would rather see Obama than McCain in power. If he is a "bleeding-heart liberal" all the better, we need libertarian politics, it makes the World a nicer place to live in. So if I lived in America it sounds like that Obama would have my vote.

I read one of Troublemaker42's posts that suggests that Obama is keen on further limiting or prohibiting firearms in the US, if so, all the better, IMO its led to nothing but higher rates of gun crime. (please correct me if I got the wrong end of the stick on that one Trouble)

Andrew87

Flyingdonk, judging by your post, you believe in a great deal of misconceptions about gun control in general.

If you'd like to discuss the topic, here's some past threads with debates about the guns issue:

http://www.marijuana.com/politics/95...-everyone.html

http://www.marijuana.com/legal-issue...y-weapons.html

SacredJellybean

That was actually more directed towards John Boy's post.

I've written before about how I think they'll all full of shit to some degree, and that choosing the one who I think is the least full of shit is desirable. I also said that Obama is also an appeaser in my last post for the 2nd Amendment stuff.

Maybe I'm just disillusioned with John McCain. Maybe I'm not giving Obama enough scrutiny, but I feel like McCain has changed his positions more and is no longer the ballsy, outspoken candidate on certain issues that he once was. At the beginning of this race, I had liked him most out of all the Republican candidates because I thought he was the most moderate, but he looks more like a Bush facsimile now than before.

I see your point, I guess I just feel that he's compromised more.

I fully admit that Obama isn't perfect and that some people are getting swept away in the hype, but I still think the policies he'd adopt would be better, and I still trust him more than McCain.

I've touched on these before. I think he paints Iran out to be a bigger threat than they are, and I think we should pull our ground troops from Iraq and let Iraq's own military and police start taking up the slack, continue to supply aid, and keep a small occupation of our own military as in other countries. I don't think simply being a former Navy Captain necessarily qualifies McCain as being a good military strategist. He has more military experience than Obama, but I also liked Clinton's foreign policy, and Clinton was a draft-dodger. Kerry was a purple-heart winner, but I didn't think that quality made him to be a better military strategist than Bush.

As far as the economy goes, I like that he'll give a tax-cut to the middle class, but I think the tax cuts that Bush imposed should be rolled back to help our deficit and any spending we might need for other things. He also seems pretty insensitive and out of touch towards the people who have had their homes foreclosed in the housing crisis, giving a "it's your fault, you deal with it" attitude.

Plainsman1963

Actually that's a good idea. Great discussion but detailed like it is a better fit in one of the dedicated 2nd amendment threads. No harm no foul. Natural progression or normal accidental hijacking, which ever way you want to look at it.

For those that want to continue following that particular discussion, follow the link and let's keep this thread more focused on the general candidacy of Senator McCain please.

http://www.marijuana.com/politics/95...-everyone.html

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joshpackr

McCain will not be getting my vote I'm afraid. I don't think the U.S. could stand 4 more years of a Bush-like administration. Hell, I'm not even sure it can stand 4 more months to be honest. The U.S. is in bad, bad shape from where I sit my friends and I'm 100% sure that McCain will keep us on the path of destruction that we are already on.

Would Obama do any better? I very seriously doubt it and I like him about as much as McCain. I don't see anyone worth voting for in this election to be honest.