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troublemaker_42

And what about his plan to give our money away at an unprecedented rate when our economy is at one of its weakest points? I'm sorry, but 845 billion over 13 years could do a lot of good improving our own situation and infrastructure, couldn't it? As far as the gun control issue, you haven't exactly put me at ease. his voting record speaks volumes, and unless you can change his past votes, nothing to say can change that. he has proven himself time and again to vote for gun control measures at almost every available opprotunity. I seriously doubt he's had a sudden change of heart. He knows his best chance and surviving the issue is to simply shut up about it and hope that everyone else does too.

__________________
Remember you're a wreck, an accident
forget the freak, you're just nature
Keep the gun oiled and the temple clean
shit, snort and blaspheme
Let the heads cool and the engine run
Because in the end,
everything we do
is just everything we've done..."Omega" by StoneSour

www.sportsmenforObama.org

 

SacredJellybean

There's no way Congress would let him do that. I wouldn't be surprised if he backpedals on this once economy is brought up in debates more. If he has stated recently of his plans to do this in light of the economy, though, I'll concede you that one.

That's fine, no arguments here. He believes what he believes, which is reflected in his voting record, regardless of how he'll now try to minimalize it. My job isn't to recruit you or anything. I just don't believe he'll be able to do much at a federal level with checks and balances.

__________________
"Every age has its peculiar folly and if Charles Mackay, the author of the 19th century classic, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds were alive today he would surely see 'cannabinophobia' as a popular delusion along with the 'tulipmania' and 'witch hunts' of earlier ages. ... I also believe that future historians will look at this epoch and recognize it as another instance of the 'madness of crowds.'"
~Dr. Lester Grinspoon

troublemaker_42

You just made a very valid point, with both comments. He's supportive of measures Congress would never pass. IMO, he's going to waste a lot of time and money with his ultra-liberal ideas that won't go anywhere. AS far as backpedaling on the global tax, you can't tell me the economic situation was really that different in Febuary when it was proposed and sponsered by Obama? Is he really as clueless about the economy as he couldn't see where things were headed at that point? The recession (or "pre-recession" depending on who you ask") was already pretty prominate at that point, yet it didn't stop him from supporting the idea. Notice Obama has never really talked about balancing the budget. The closest he has come is saying he'll put us on a pathway to an eventually balanced budget, yet has no problem running our deficiet up even more with asinine measures like the global tax.

Its not so much I fear Obama could actually enact stricter gun control laws, or that I believe the global tax idea will go through. What bothers me is that he even supports such measures in the first place. I don't care if the checks and balances will effectively limit some of his more radical proposals. I'm not comfortable with the most powerful leader in our country being supportive of things I see as horrible for our country. Limiting our Constitutional Freedoms all the while giving our money away at an unprecedented rate isn't exactly the type of qualities I look for in a leader. Its not that I'm in fear of him actually being able to do some of the things I dislike, but I'm uncomfortable that he WOULD implement them if he could find a way to do so. I think his ultra-liberal tendencies will make him ineffective as a leader, with him pushing things Congress won't support on a frequent basis. I have zero confidence of him ushering America into a period of prosperity, and fear he'll just sink us further into debt while not accomplishing much of anything.

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troublemaker_42

I misunderstood your point. Since we (Sacred and myself) were basicaly comparing and contrasting Obama and McCain in our previous posts, I assumed you were doing the same. I was obviously wrong As far as my vote being wasted, you're entirely right. We'll have to agree to disagree. My vote for McCain is simply a vote against Obama and Hilary as far as I'm concerned. I'm not so much about making sure McCain makes it into office as I am making sure either of the other two frontrunners do not. That may not make sense to you, but, on the other hand, casting a vote for someone who has a snowball's chance in hell of winning or not voting at all doesn't make sense to me. Knowing that one of three WILL be elected, it only makes sense (to me) to do as much damage control as I can. If tjhat means voting for someone I see as less than ideal, so be it. The simple reality is Clinton, Obama, or McCain WILL be our next president, and a vote for anyone else at this point might make people feel better, but won't change anything....whereas voting against certain candidates certainly can have an effect on elections. Do I wish I had more choices? Damn straight I do....however, one of the three will lead our country in less than a year, and its a damn shame I have to vote the way I plan to, but given the situation, I can't do anything else and be able to sleep at night. I have zero faith in Obama and Clinton, and am terrified of what will become of our country under either's leadership.

SacredJellybean

I understand where you're coming from, as liberals are usually the ones to raise taxes. I would agree with you if John McCain wasn't adopting the exact same policies that lead our economy into the toilet to begin with. Obviously there was one factor beyond his control: the bubble in the housing market that had formed, and the resulting credit crunch. The other two big factors as to why we now have a 9.5 trillion dollar deficit are the tax cuts for the wealthy and the War in Iraq, both of which are ideas that McCain has supported. He sits pretty easy, owning 8 homes and being one of the richest men in Congress, while passing off those whose homes are being foreclosed as irresponsible. And Obama is the elitest one?

Cafe Talk | Talking Points Memo | Expediency, Morality, and the McCain Economy

Not everyone can just buck up and sacrifice more to keep their homes. Many people are doing everything within their power to stay afloat, but it's easy to write them off when you're not in their shoes. McCain hasn't even acknowledged that the economy is in trouble until fairly recently AFAIK. Obama obviously isn't innocent in this capacity, having not even talked about the economy.

I just checked, here's what his website says:

He's willing to cut taxes for those who actually need it, rather than helping the rich get richer. The Bush tax cuts are ass-backwards. This, combined with Iraq, combined with the possibility of Iran (but let's be fair - Congress probably wouldn't let him do that, either) make me scared as hell to have John McCain at the helm. I'm probably as scared to have him elected as you are of having Obama or Clinton elected. To each his own, though. It's possible that Obama will be able to push through some liberal policies that will waste money, but even if he wasted just as much money as McCain, at least it'd be towards something noble, not making enemies or destablizing countries.

 

Swabeky

At least John is more honest than Bush.
Mccain implies iraq was about oil

SacredJellybean

A rare attribute indeed! Give that man a medal!

Bernie420

To me, this is shaping up to be a replay of the 1972 elections. Here is some of the things I see as having some commonground.
1. Huge anti war sentiments across the nation.
2. The appearance of a weak Republican candidate.
3. A very liberal Democratic candidate.
4. A Democratic candidate who opposed the war.

I'm sure if we look hard enough we'll find other similarities. Anyone remember how that one turned out?

Doc Mitch

nope i wasnt alive. want to tell me?

Bernie420

McGovern lost by a landslide. He lost every state except Mass. It was a total beat down. Afterwards, the Democratic Party avoided George McGovern like the plague.