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***Plainsman1963*** · 09-08-2007, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guerilla

the USA = Nazi Germany end sentence.

That post = hyperbole. End sentence.

DankDealer · 09-09-2007, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darque Pervert

Frankly, I don't think he has a snowball's chance in hell. He goes against the grain of the views of the rest of the Republican Party.
Sadly, I think that's tragic, but it's all the nature of United States politics.

So how long are people going to let this tragedy continue? When will our voices be heard? The ball is in our court now and we actually have a chance to do something about it. So instead of living with this tragedy we can change it with a simple vote!

I cant tell you how many people tell me they agree with Dr. Pauls views but dont want to vote for him for fear of "waisting" their vote. If all those people actually voted then maybe we DO stand a snowballs chance in hell

IBlazedHeavily · 09-09-2007, 01:39 AM

i want some of u ron fans to explain one thing to me...this is the only thing that i totally disagree with him on, its to do with the war, and i believe its tragic that he never puts more thought into how we can really fix the mess, being that iraq is the main issue on voters minds..

ok fact is we destroyed the infrastructure of a country..took us only 2 weeks i believe..we cant turn back time so all we can do is look fwd for solutions. ron paul has said on many occasions publicly "we need to just get out immediately" everytime he says this it really bothers me because it is not a realistic option. if we could just leave and things would be fine it would be nice..but the reality is the country is in shambles and in civil war. for the US to just redeploy would cause so much damage to our countries safety.

i dont think i need to explain what would happen to the people we are trying to protect, other than that we would definately feel the backlash of the whole thing..u know how bad it would look for us to just cut an run? 20 billion dollars later, all we have to show for it would be a country in ruins, and a do nothing parliament. this would not in anyway be a good thing..we would definately gain more enemies.

does anyone have anything to say in his defense?

Darque Pervert · 09-09-2007, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DankDealer

So how long are people going to let this tragedy continue? When will our voices be heard? The ball is in our court now and we actually have a chance to do something about it. So instead of living with this tragedy we can change it with a simple vote!

Hey, you're preaching to the choir, here.
The sad thing is that the vast majority of Americans don't think a candidate is worthwhile unless they belong to a mainstream party, namely Democrat or Republican.

I guess the deeper question is how can we make people understand that the parties are corrupt, over-bloated and will continue to be?

Quote:

I cant tell you how many people tell me they agree with Dr. Pauls views but dont want to vote for him for fear of "waisting" their vote. If all those people actually voted then maybe we DO stand a snowballs chance in hell

You're right again, man.
I'm willing to "vote outside the box", as it were. Hell, I've done it before and would do it again.
In my eyes, the political parties are full of shit. I'll vote for the candidate(s) whose beliefs and platform most closely match my personal ideology.

How to get the rest of Americans to do that?
Haven't got a clue.

DankDealer · 09-09-2007, 02:17 AM

This is not a war that can be "won" so what other option do we have besides leaving and letting them work it out themselves? How long are we going to stay over there while our soldiers die for nothing?

While just pulling out may not be the best idea I dont really see any other "plans" that look any better either.

***Plainsman1963*** · 09-09-2007, 02:37 AM

An argument has been made that as long as we are over there, the Iraqi government (including their police and soldiers) have little to no incentive to "stand up" for themselves so we can "stand down".

The argument continues with the idea that our leaving will force them to get their act together or watch their country implode more than it already has.

I don't necessarily agree 100% with that argument, but it makes more sense to me then our staying there until April (when we either have to leave or institute the draft) without accomplishing a damn thing other than more Americans killed and our military broken.

This conversation is very reminiscent of the one had at the end of Vietnam.

How about we let this Administration (including every congressman that voted to go) go on over there in place of our soldiers and let them fix the mess they made?

Ron will be here to run this country and a damn fine job of it he will do, I think.

isrow · 09-10-2007, 03:32 AM

Quote:

ok fact is we destroyed the infrastructure of a country..took us only 2 weeks i believe..we cant turn back time so all we can do is look fwd for solutions. ron paul has said on many occasions publicly "we need to just get out immediately" everytime he says this it really bothers me because it is not a realistic option. if we could just leave and things would be fine it would be nice..but the reality is the country is in shambles and in civil war. for the US to just redeploy would cause so much damage to our countries safety.

In my opinion we are damned in we do and damned if we don't. If we don't leave violence will continue to be waged against our troops and as a side affect against other religious sects. However I believe the entire Middle East has a lot better chance of peace if we pull out of everywhere. Was it awful what we have done to the country? Yes. But it's only going to get worse if we stay. Our and the Iraqi citizens best hope is if we just leave. Will there be violence and bloodshed after we leave? Almost definitely yes. But in the long term picture if we stay it will never die down but if we leave eventually I believe it has to (even if the country splits into three separate countries.) Essentially there are no answers, it's too f#cked up.

Quote:

20 billion dollars later

It's actually $450 billion, so far...

***Plainsman1963*** · 09-12-2007, 04:08 PM

A message from Ron Paul:

Quote:

Faced with dwindling support of the Iraq War, the warhawks are redoubling their efforts. They imply we are in Iraq attacking those who attacked us, and yet this is not the case. As we know, Saddam Hussein, though not a particularly savory character, had nothing to do with 9/11. The neo-cons claim surrender should not be an option. In the same breath they claim we were attacked because of our freedoms. Why then, are they so anxious to surrender our freedoms with legislation like the Patriot Act, a repeal of our 4th amendment rights, executive orders, and presidential signing statements? With politicians like these, who needs terrorists? Do they think if we destroy our freedoms for the terrorists they will no longer have a reason to attack us? This seems the epitome of cowardice coming from those who claim a monopoly on patriotic courage.

In any case, we have achieved the goals specified in the initial authorization. Saddam Hussein has been removed. An elected government is now in place in Iraq that meets with US approval. The only weapon of mass destruction in Iraq is our military presence. Why are we still over there? Conventional wisdom would dictate that when the "mission is accomplished", the victor goes home, and that is not considered a retreat.

They claim progress is being made and we are fighting a winnable war, but this is not a view connected with reality. We can't be sure when we kill someone over there if they were truly an insurgent or an innocent Iraqi civilian. There are as many as 650,000 deaths since the war began. The anger we incite by killing innocents creates more new insurgents than our bullets can keep up with. There are no measurable goals to be achieved at this point.

The best congressional leadership can come up with is the concept of strategic redeployment, or moving our troops around, possibly into Saudi Arabia or even, alarmingly enough, into Iran. Rather than ending this war, we could be starting another one.

The American people voted for a humble foreign policy in 2000. They voted for an end to the war in 2006. Instead of recognizing the wisdom and desire of the voters, they are chided as cowards, unwilling to defend themselves. Americans are fiercely willing to defend themselves. However, we have no stomach for indiscriminate bombing in foreign lands when our actual attackers either killed themselves on 9/11 or are still at large somewhere in a country that is neither Iraq nor Iran. Defense of our homeland is one thing. Offensive tactics overseas are quite another. Worse yet, when our newly minted enemies find their way over here, where will our troops be to defend us?

The American people have NOT gotten the government they deserve. They asked for a stronger America and peace through nonintervention, yet we have a government of deceit, inaction and one that puts us in grave danger on the international front. The American People deserve much better than this. They deserve foreign and domestic policy that doesn't require they surrender their liberties.

HazyBritBoi · 09-13-2007, 07:24 PM

It's a shame that Ron is a long shot...i applaud his viewpoints but unfortunately we'll be likely stuck with Hilary.

***Plainsman1963*** · 09-30-2007, 01:06 AM

So, the end of the fundraising 3rd quarter is upon us. Mass media is still ignoring Ron Paul. Online polls that include a vast cornucopia of demographics are scorned while phone polls that are based off of 500 or less registered voters are considered the final word in popularity.

Ron Paul decided to get a push the last week of fundraising for the quarter. He asked (via email and his site) for a total of $500,000 by the 30th. He figures that will give him more funds than the last quarter (when he outraised McCain) and maybe get some press to pay attention.

He got the $500,000 in a couple of days. I helped.

So then, what the hell...Let's try for a million. I think that will be surpassed by midnight tonight. Maybe the total will be between 1.5 and 2 million?

To those of you who still feel the only way your vote will count is to vote for the lesser of two evils?

One of my favorite quotes:

Quote:

Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.
John Quincy Adams

If you vote for Ron Paul, you won't be voting alone by any means. If you want to support him, head to Ron Paul 2008; Hope for America and donate.
You can even buy a hat or t-shirt, get some gear and the money will go to his campaign. I bought a hat, myself. That way I can be accosted on the street by folks saying Ron Paul is "crazy" and I can show them the error of their ways.

09-13-2007, 07:24 PM	#19
HazyBritBoi Jr. Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 189 Grams: 3,132.16 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 27 Thanked 52 Times in 35 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	It's a shame that Ron is a long shot...i applaud his viewpoints but unfortunately we'll be likely stuck with Hilary. __________________ Yea i can pot in my freezer.....WTF I CANT PUT POT IN MY FREEZER!

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09-09-2007, 01:39 AM	#13
IBlazedHeavily Banned Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 635 Grams: 4,630.97 Groans: 4 Groaned at 13 Times in 6 Posts Thanks: 14 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	i want some of u ron fans to explain one thing to me...this is the only thing that i totally disagree with him on, its to do with the war, and i believe its tragic that he never puts more thought into how we can really fix the mess, being that iraq is the main issue on voters minds.. ok fact is we destroyed the infrastructure of a country..took us only 2 weeks i believe..we cant turn back time so all we can do is look fwd for solutions. ron paul has said on many occasions publicly "we need to just get out immediately" everytime he says this it really bothers me because it is not a realistic option. if we could just leave and things would be fine it would be nice..but the reality is the country is in shambles and in civil war. for the US to just redeploy would cause so much damage to our countries safety. i dont think i need to explain what would happen to the people we are trying to protect, other than that we would definately feel the backlash of the whole thing..u know how bad it would look for us to just cut an run? 20 billion dollars later, all we have to show for it would be a country in ruins, and a do nothing parliament. this would not in anyway be a good thing..we would definately gain more enemies. does anyone have anything to say in his defense?

09-09-2007, 02:17 AM	#15
DankDealer New Age Krunk Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 562 Grams: 2,639.54 Groans: 1 Groaned at 3 Times in 1 Post Thanks: 140 Thanked 120 Times in 85 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	This is not a war that can be "won" so what other option do we have besides leaving and letting them work it out themselves? How long are we going to stay over there while our soldiers die for nothing? While just pulling out may not be the best idea I dont really see any other "plans" that look any better either.

09-09-2007, 02:37 AM	#16
*Plainsman1963* Advisor Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 5,237 Groans: 21 Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts Thanks: 479 Thanked 1,110 Times in 558 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: -1.000%	An argument has been made that as long as we are over there, the Iraqi government (including their police and soldiers) have little to no incentive to "stand up" for themselves so we can "stand down". The argument continues with the idea that our leaving will force them to get their act together or watch their country implode more than it already has. I don't necessarily agree 100% with that argument, but it makes more sense to me then our staying there until April (when we either have to leave or institute the draft) without accomplishing a damn thing other than more Americans killed and our military broken. This conversation is very reminiscent of the one had at the end of Vietnam. How about we let this Administration (including every congressman that voted to go) go on over there in place of our soldiers and let them fix the mess they made? Ron will be here to run this country and a damn fine job of it he will do, I think.

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