rick

This poll references the "Iowa Guardsmen Home from Iraq Face Drug Discipline ", article posted by Zombie.

These men/women are heros in my mind, yet they will be persecuted as if they were common criminals after serving their country and offering their lives in Americas first invasion.

Any military people out there care to comment on this? Im very curious as how someone who has actually served in combat feels about this issue.

rick

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JTP

I voted no. There are several options outside of a dishonorable discharge than can be taken that are not as extreme. It does, however, hing upon the individual circumstances of each soldier. If they ARE dirt-ball scum sucking hippies who were looking for an easy out , give them the boot. If they are just soldiers caught by bad timing or poor foresight, well a little non-judicial punishment would be just fine with me.

mikez

JTP,

From your post I wasn't sure you understood this particular situation. The tests were taken before those guys went to Iraq. The timeline was (1) took test, (2) shipped overseas, (3) results of test come back positive for drugs, (4) months of service in combat situations (getting shot at), (5) return to USA, and finally (6) dishonorable discharge for the postive tests.

If the discharge was the right option, those guys should have been sent back before going into battle situations.

mikez

p.s. Not all hippies suck scum.

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"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." --Thomas Jefferson.

JTP

Hey, some of my best friends are hippies .

I got the sequence, thanks though. In some of my 'googling' on this topic there were a few who tested positive and the results were returned before they shipped out, those few did not go.

I would also add to your sequence the initial activation order that went out probably 4 months before they shipped. Trust me that if they didn't want to piss hot, they wouldn't have pissed hot.

If their pissing hot was a result of a "going away, hope you make it back" party I think they should be cut a little slack. Slack as in non-judicial punishment (like BAD BOY! go stand watch for 12 hours a day for the next week, but thats it. Nothing permenant). Those people may be dumb, but that does not make them worthy of a dishonorable discharge.

If their pissing hot was a result of a "I don't want to go so I will piss hot" effort, then they should burn. No difference between them and any other attempted deserter.

I don’t know which case it was, hence my qualification. I have known a lot of soldiers who blazed, and they were as stand-up as any. They did, however, value their job and took steps to ensure they didn’t lose it. Just like any other smoker who values their job and gets piss tested makes sure they pass a piss test.

poTCat

That depends. Yes, if they tried to get out of it by purposely failing they should face punishment, but I also think that their personal service (what the individual soldier actually does durring his time in service) should still be crucial to the severity of the punishment.

What if the person most involved in capturing Saddam tried to purposely fail the drug test? Should he be punished worse than someone who didn't try to fail, but would drag his feet wherever he could get away with it?

xxdr_zombiexx

This is only further proof that Marijuana Prohibition and the "War on Druuuuugs" is vastly more important than most people ever grasp. Or want to grasp.

One toke of mary-ju-wanna and you go from being America's Hero to some dishonorable dirtbag: Go catch bullets and if you live, you're dishonorably booted. Your urine is just not American urine anymore.

The message is clear.

100% political ideology.

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Torture Good, Healthcare Bad, Marijuana Evil.

There's no money for your issue so long as we're squandering $50 billion a year on the DrugWar. Ben Masel

Niteshift

Any military people out there care to comment on this? Im very curious as how someone who has actually served in combat feels about this issue.

Ok. I'm a military combat veteran.

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with this action.

The military is totally different than the "real world". You do not enjoy all the same rights that you do as a civilian (one of those little ironies). And you know this fact up front.

In essence, you are owned by the military when you are in. You can be told what to wear, what to say, where to go, what to eat, when you can go, how to cut your hair etc. Without those kinds of restrictions, the military could not function as it does.

The military is not some grand social experiement. It's sole purpose is to break stuff, blow things up and kill people. Anything which does not contribute to that mission is subject to be restricted. That's life in the military.

And mj is not being singled out. While I was in basic training and AIT, I was prohibited from using tobacco or alcohol, both legal substances. Steroids were tested for, even though they could be LEGALLY purchased in countries I was stationed in.

And for those complaining about how long it took to boot them (after some time in Iraq), then you should know how the system works. The army does not boot you the second you show up hot on the test. The sample must be re-tested a number of times, including in a gas chromatograph before ANY action can be taken. This is to prevent false positives as much as possible and can differentiate between actual use and second hand smoke. This is for the soldiers protection. Given that those 21 aren't even close to being the only ones they have to re-test, it simply takes time.


I might sound like I'm being a hard-ass about pot, but I'm not. I'm being a hard-ass about the military. People keep trying to change the military to reflect civilian society. This is not always conducive to the military mission.

The military is a different world. Combat is different from that. Military members know that they are "selling their soul" when they go in and should not complain if they are caught doing something that KNOW is wrong, something that was illegal for them to do at home, even before they went in, regardless of how they feel about the law.

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A burning desire for social justice is never a substitute for knowing what you're talking about. -Thomas Sowell

Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is muzzle flash.

poTCat

We're not complaining about how long it takes, we're complaining that they know, but they've stated they won't do anything until they get back. They know those soldiers failed the drug test, but instead of calling them back and discharging them now, they're going to let them continue to put their lives at risk and discharge them later when they get back. Basically saying "If the war doesn't kill them, they'll be dishonored and discharged from the military." And they don't even tell the soldiers this (or they did, but the soldiers have no way to get back home). Such a thing is inhumane, especially since there's no incriminating evidence of illegal activity (failing a drug test isn't illegal; against military regulations, since it can impair their ability to fight, yes, and that's why they should be discharged, or at least brought back, now, not after the fighting's over).

smoking_joe_lee

All too many seem to think that the military, even in peacetime is just like any other job. It aint. Just for starters, how many jobs require one to sign a contract for up to 6 years and agree to obey an entirely new set of laws? (UCMJ)
Back when I was in the navy, (no combat) there was a series of accidents that were determined to be drug related. One was an EA-6B electronics countermeasures jet that crashed on landing on the aircraft carrier. There were FATALITIES. Subsequently, the nave came up with a "zero tollerance" policy for drugs. It would be extreemly simplistic to say this policy came about simply to win any war on drugs. Saving lives certainly was.
As for anyone getting a DD for a first offense mj piss test, that has not been my experience. Even after zero tolerance. For example when I was in an FA/18A Hornet squadron a mech in the squadron was given a general discharge for coming up positive for pot. He was an excellent meshanic, but this was the third time in a year he tested positive. They gave him a couple of chances. He made his own choices. He chose to get high and didn't seem to mind getting discharged.

The Luik

For some reason the military is trying to make an example out of them... To get some publicity on the drug war or something...

What some of you might not realize is that many people in the army get caught with drugs in their system, I knew a guy who got caught and his punishment was 45 days of extra duty of loss of a few hundred dollars... Most people that get caught just end up with a general discharge ...