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Trocisp

What of it?

In this day and age, competition for acceptance in medical programs is so fierce that if you qualify, chances are you also qualify for Scholarships, Student Loans and federal assistance.You're confusing Social Tiers with Economic Tiers.

Those born to the poor do not have to work 100 times harder to produce the same, they have to work equally hard for the same result.That's not socialism.

That's just Free Education, which is the next, logical step to what we have now. We already have free education from the grades of K-12, it stands to reason that at some point that will be extended.

Perhaps, instead of arguing for pure socialism, which is pure fantasy, you should attempt to help implement social/economic reforms in a realistic fashion, which might work?
What if I love to make money?

Some positions are more valuable to society than others, or more valuable to individuals than others.

Ask yourself this, acidrain09, Where does the government get the right to tell me I have to be payed a certain amount? Where do you get the right to tell me how much I'm allowed to earn?

Why should someone who fits airplane engines be payed the same as the guy who sweeps the floor?

 

Bhikku

My vote is meritocracy.

Meritocracy = a system of a government or another organization wherein appointments are made and responsibilities are given based on demonstrated talent and ability (merit), rather than by wealth (plutocracy), family connections (nepotism), class privilege (oligarchy), cronyism, the will of the people (as in democracy) or other historical determinants of social position and political power. In a meritocracy, society rewards (by wealth, position, and social status) those who demonstrated talent and competence, demonstrated through past actions or by competition. [Thank you Wikipedia!]

In my ideal government, competence would be the determining factor on who got to be in charge of anything.

For example, FEMA would not be ran by some dumbass Oklahoma hick lawyer just because he was friends with the guys in charge of running the show. Why? Because that is a serious position responsible for millions of peoples' lives that should be left to individuals who know what the hell they're doing. Instead, it would be ran by an expert in disaster management who had fought tooth and nail to get that position (competing with the brightest names in the country) using his experience and demonstrated skill as leverage in his favor. The qualified expert with the greatest rate of success or the largest amount of experience wins.

If merit becomes a factor in people "winning" in life (scoring a political position, getting a job, practicing a religion) then people try harder to meet and excel the highest standards. Catholic churches in my area require you to take years of classes before you can convert to Catholicism. So in order to be a Catholic, you have to be in it for the long haul. You have to stay interested long enough to demonstrate merit.

That's how I feel politics should be, too. I want that kid who worked his butt off from kindergarten up to become the President, because that shows me how important that position means to that kid. And if that kid demonstrates the kind of talent necessary to run the country, I'll know he'll at least try to do a good job, because he worked so hard to get it.

I think society should be more competitive about its own progress, and that our communities should reflect that.

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"Being high is one of the most pleasant sensations available to mankind. Every day is Saturday. It is to be like a child; to perceive events with clarity; to look into the gates of paradise; to completely enjoy whatever you might be doing."

Trocisp

The USA is supposed to have a Meritocracy of sorts.

The person in charge of FEMA is supposed to be appointed based on skills, and then confirmed, again, based on skill.

We just happened to have elected a moron, who likes to feel like the smartest guy in the room.

dedbr

The choices aren't exactly endless now are they.....


Some Where In Ded Land....................

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"Don't talk to me of pacts. There are no pacts between lions and men. Wolves and lambs can enjoy no meeting of the minds, they are all bent on hating each other to the death."

Homer

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Acidrain09

Your telling me that the person who has their parents pay for med school has it exactly the same as the person who has to work two jobs to put themselves through med school?

Yes, the entire system does not have to be abolished. It simply has to change. Free education would be the next step to equality.

"Democracy is the road to socialism." -Marx

It's not an overnight thing, I'm not saying that. We will (hopefully) change into a impure socialist state, which will keep evolving.

Then you should try and deal with the fact that doing what you love to do is more important than how much money you make.

If there’s no one at the deli, manning the register, then the deli does not function. If there’s no one at the hospital, then the hospital doesn’t function. Both are needed to function at this society, without anyone doing the jobs that they hate to do (manning counters, taking orders) this society does not function.
Because you are aloud to do anything you want, you can become a doctor, a physiologist, whatever makes you happy, and in return for doing what makes you happy, you get enough money to get what you want and need.
Because both are needed.

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"A successful man gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do."-Dylan
"Democracy is the road to socialism." -Marx
"Religion is the opiate of the masses." -Marx
"The things you own end up owning you." -Tyler Durden

 

Trocisp

For some people, making money is what makes them happy.

Ever heard of a game called 'monopoly'? What about the million other business simulation games out there?

But both are not equally valuable.

Anyone has the ability to sweep floors. It does not require dedication, or a specific skill set.

Not anyone can become a doctor, it takes dedication, specific skills, and a certain innate ability which cannot be learned (people drop out of med school all of the time).

I'm telling you, quite specifically, a doctor is more valuable than a Janitor.

A good doctor is nearly irreplaceable, where you can put an ad in the paper and have 10 potential applicants for Janitorial work half an hour after the paper runs.

Don't misunderstand me, Acidrain09, I think that certain professions are overpaid, and that a sustainable society needs to have pay which is more inline, however everyone does not deserve, nor should they receive, 'the same pay.'

Acidrain09

Know what? I'm going to drop this part of the argument. Why? Because I have not yet lived long enough to know why (or how) people can only care about money. The concept makes no sense to me. As long as you have enough to survive (maybe a little extra) I don't see how you could need more.

So you can buy the $300,000 car? Who the fuck cares? Its just a hunk of metal that pollutes the earth. So you can buy the $2,000,000 mansion? Awful lotta money to be paying to be living in a big hose....


So what happens if the hospital doesn’t have any janitors? The trash builds up, and the hospital tools (for lack of a better word) get all dirty, and the hospital stops functioning. What happens when there are no doctors? The hospital stops functioning.

Yes, but someone needs to do it.

Those people who's dream is was to become a doctor can, but, with equal wedges, it’s a lot harder for the person who wants to do it for cash.

I guarantee that more doctors like their jobs then janitors. Why should the person who actually looks forward to waking up in the morning get paid any more than the person who dreads every second of his job?

Trocisp

So I can retire early, and read books for the rest of my life?

So I can pamper my wife and children?

So I can start my own business?

So I can donate to charity?

Why the hell does it matter what I want it for? I want it, and it's not within your rights to say I shouldn't be allowed to have it.

They hire new janitors.

Remember the part where I said "You can put an ad in the newspaper and have 10 janitors within 30 minutes off of the press." ?
Yep, it does.
Yes, and someone does it now.
And where is it your right to tell them they don't have a right to be a doctor for the cash?

If someone (the hospital) deems the Doctors valuable enough to pay them, why is it your right to tell them otherwise?
Now you're psychic too?
Because the person who loves their job trained for 8 years to get there, they worked extremely hard through medical school and internship, and they earned their right to be a doctor.

All the janitor had to do was apply.

When janitorial service takes as much training as Medical professionals receive, or when someone determines that Janitors are worth as much to them as Medical professionals, janitors will make as much as doctors.

Until then, if you want to make more money, work your way up the career ladder, go to school, etc.

macphearsome

a pretty obvious statement. when you've lived long enough to have to pay for all of your luxuries, you will understand why money is a little bit important. I'm not trying to lecture. I know what you're thinking, but trust me. In five years, it's going to be obvious.

skiing trips. gym passes. education. eating out. doing what you want to do.
Agreed on the car and the house. But trust me, there are a lot of nice things in this world that aren't cars or houses and cost money. We could get into a long discussion about what things are worth money, and in many cases I'll agree with you. Fuck nice cars. Fuck big houses. That shit ain't important. But what about a car that take me where I want to go? What about a piano that has a nice sound to it? What about a new pair of skis and a pool table? Hobbies aren't always free.

__________________
"the only way to achieve certainty is to amputate inquiry"
Marvin Minsky

Jake

And I don't have a problem with it. I work two jobs to pay for my college. I've been working 4-5 doubles a week all summer, saving every penny of my paychecks and just living off my tips. It's fucking hard to pay for college.

And I know that there are a lot of kids out there, and I know a couple, who have never worked an honest hour in their life, and go to school full time, knocking down credits extremely fast on their way to a MBA.

I am doing what I have to do in order to get what I want. You don't hear me saying it's unfair.

Something tells me at the end of it, I'll probably have a stronger work ethic than some people, and even if I am competing with someone for the same job with an MBA, I think I will be a better worker, and in the long run, I'll make a lot more money.

Hard work (even for little pay) is a virtue.

Also the socialist shit about making all jobs pay the same would be HORRIBLE. I've lost a job before when the minimum wage was raised one time because when it was raised, I wasn't worth the extra money to my employer.

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