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hauptmann · 06-23-2006, 05:05 PM

It really makes me sad that by watching this video someone could change their mind without researching the video itself. It is no different than any propaganda commercial about marijuana or anything else for that matter. They give you their skewed details mixed in with guessing and plenty of loose ends and you guys are all taking it in hook, line and sinker.

Wake up! Sure you have plenty of mistrust for the government, that's a given. But do you have that much mistrust in all of your fellow citizens? Think to yourself, how many American citizens both military and civilian would have to be involved in such a scheme. Do you honestly believe that hundreds of soldiers, policemen, firemen, demo experts and engineers would go ahead and take part in bombing thousands of their friends and family members and then not say a god damn word about it. No, because its complete bullshit. You're just too afraid to accept the fact that these guys

were able to take OUR planes and crash them into OUR buildings. You want to desperately believe that this small group couldn't inflict such damage upon us.
You want to believe that our government is so omnipotent that they did it and not a small group of terrorists. If you had to accept that this group did this to us that would make you feel vulnerable and frightened.
"How could THEY do THAT?"
But that's the truth. Wake up and smell the coffee. These sick bastards were planning this for a long time, they put their plan into action and THEY crashed planes into our buildings and killed our brothers and sisters. We did not kill ourselves. And guess what guys, more of their buddies are still trying to do more.

So please, either before or after you watch the video type it into google and wikipedia and do a little research. Don't fall into the trap of just believing what this guy says over Dj Smokeblunts' beats. Just read a little, I know its not as easy as watching a video with nice music and it might strain your brain to read the truth but check out the debunking sites about this video, please. Don't fall into the trap of believing a theory after watching an 81 minute video, it makes you look gullible and naive.

I hope it doesn't take another building to go down to make you guys believe who is doing this to us.

Jake · 06-23-2006, 06:35 PM

Loose Change is false. They've had to quietly admit to many factual errors, without schanging the video. They don't seem to know that the World Trade Center is built much differently than any other building, and physic comparisions between WTC and other falling buildings hold no relevance.

The most compelling part of Loose Change is that Bush et al knew of the attack. They prove this better than the way they "prove" that it was an inside job.

My belief is that Bush and everyone knew what was going to happen, and they let it. Synthetic terrorism has been used many times in history. jFK had those plans with Cuba. Our entry into the Spanish American war was based on synthetic terror.

It doesn't matter if it was an inside job or not, all that matters is if he knew and didn't stop it. We give up absolute freedom for government protection; this is a social contract outlined by John Locke and was a huge influencer on the Declaration. When our government doesn't protect it's people, it has failed on it's side of the contract and thus should be overthrown

Itzamna · 06-25-2006, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamabudz

Itzamna --

You have a serious problem there.

You are referencing to a fiction referred to as the Protocols of Zion -- a fiction that has caused the murder of 10's of millions of people, MY people.

We do not allow racism on this site. The type of racism in question is anti-semitism.

I will ask you kindly to cease and desist.

I will also be reporting this thread to the Administration.

First, i'd like to clear things up. It's not racism for a reason. I'd call it knowing the history of a holy land in which the U.S. is directly involved with murder, it could be the truth.
I never said we should retaliate agaisnt these sect of jewish people, that would be racist. I'm not stiring up hate and violence towards anyone, im just saying that our current problems in the world relate directly to this verbal code and these people. I'm not saying their bad and take action, that would be racist. And if you researched it further you would know, its only a localized sect of judaism, not all jewish people, thats the whole fighting is about.

Jesus preached agaisnts the beliefs of those cult of people and said something like leave these people alone don't sink to their level or something. Jesus. who was indirectly killed by this tribe of people sharing the same verbal codes.

Quote:

We do not allow racism on this site

I know this and have not crossed any lines yet, i have specifically posted a thread in books on the protocols of zion and many others on the same topic of Isreal, I'm not preaching believe in these people and support them, I'm telling you their beliefs lie in a verbal code not the bible or other holy book. I'm saying our problems today have stemmed from gangs thousands and thousands of years ago.

Quote:

You are referencing to a fiction referred to as the Protocols of Zion

No, not exactly i mention that as a reference, I'm talking about the Babylonian Talmud, which you can research at your local synagog's library.

I don't care if i offended you for i was not being racist.

Souke · 06-25-2006, 06:40 AM

Personally I don't think anyone will ever know. and even if it is 100 percent proven, people will always believe what they want to believe. btw, my b-day is 9/11.. sucked that year

innervision311 · 06-25-2006, 05:09 PM

First of all those people in the pictures didn't do the hijacking. Just because they're dark skinned and I'm a raging bleeding heart doesn't mean I love them and think they couldn't do anything wrong. It doesn't hurt me to admit that they did it because who they are or where they come from, it just hurts MY BRAIN to admit that people who flew jets into buildings are still alive. At least seven of those hijackers have been found alive. What evidence is there at all that they were involved?

Ok so if the WTC towers were built so differently that they were brought down by 56 minutes of fire that burned at around 2000 degrees, then how did WTC 7 come down? It was "hit by debris" from the towers and came crashing to the ground (with the center krinkle, signature of a controlled demolition) from fire, then why would Larry Silverstein say "We decided to PULL the building." He admitted that they brought the building down with controlled demolitions. Are you so naive that you will believe that a building could be set to be taken down like that in eight hours WITH a fire burning inside? It was a controlled demolition, Larry Silverstein admitted it. That type of neat implosion takes weeks to plan. I used to watch shows on building razers all the time. I know a thing or two about how they do it. It was a very obvious controlled demolition. Ever seen one go wrong? Even the slighest error makes a building come down very crooked and sloppily. I'm sorry but there is no way in hell that a building could be attacked by terrorists and come down so perfectly.

Also how could the integrity of the entire frame of the towers be comprimised by a fire that burned for under an hour in one location? If the steel had melted and caused the collapse, only a small section would have collapsed. But here's another interesting point. The steel supposedly burned for about an hour at 2000 degrees F. The company that certified the steel wrote a letter saying that every piece of steel they sell is stress tested at 2000 degrees for many hours. Not until about 3000 degrees F will steel become molten. So...even if there weren't explosives planted (sure...what were the massive explosions that occured seconds before the towers fell?) how do you explain an entire collapse of three buildings (one with dissimilar architecture) into a pile of dust???

Like I said I was a skeptic too and didn't want to believe that Bush was the antichrist because of what it meant but there is so much evidence that I can't deny what I know is the truth any longer.

And my final point. What does Bush have to gain from 9/11? Has any president in the history of this country ever done more things to rape the constitution and make it their own? Do you know why we let him? We're stopping the freedom-hating terrorists. Don't you see how you've been coerced? If Bill Clinton bombed someone without any reason or evidence they would have not only impeached him but removed him as well. Bush has the pretext of 9/11 to do whatever he wants.

What do conspiracy theorists have to gain? Obviously ridicule and not much else. I'm not power hungry, and I don't think anyone else with my view is. I just want to be able to live my life the way I want. Bush has stopped me and everyone I know from living their life (as) freely and it's based on a lie. I want the patriot act gone, I want the DHS gone, but most of all I want my freedom back. And at this point, this evidence is the only thing that will EVER make a difference.

Darque Pervert · 06-26-2006, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innervision311

First of all those people in the pictures didn't do the hijacking. Just because they're dark skinned and I'm a raging bleeding heart doesn't mean I love them and think they couldn't do anything wrong. It doesn't hurt me to admit that they did it because who they are or where they come from, it just hurts MY BRAIN to admit that people who flew jets into buildings are still alive. At least seven of those hijackers have been found alive. What evidence is there at all that they were involved?

Seven people with the same names were found alive... That's no evidence whatsoever. People of all ethinc backgrounds broker in stolen identities for illegal entry into the U.S. and other countries. If an identity is stolen, that means there is a victim.

I want to know what evidence you have that makes you so positive these people that were known to have gone to flightschool int he U.S. with intent to learn to fly a passenger jet, identified at the originating airports of the flights that crashed into the Pentagon and WTC,were already on terrorist watch lists and had written false identites and written plans in their residences are not those that hijacked planes on September 11.
Better yet, if you have such compelling evidence, why haven't you been rushing to the FBI, the CIA, the NSA or someone else to clear the names of these innocent people?

Quote:

Ok so if the WTC towers were built so differently that they were brought down by 56 minutes of fire that burned at around 2000 degrees, then how did WTC 7 come down? It was "hit by debris" from the towers and came crashing to the ground (with the center krinkle, signature of a controlled demolition) from fire, then why would Larry Silverstein say "We decided to PULL the building." He admitted that they brought the building down with controlled demolitions. Are you so naive that you will believe that a building could be set to be taken down like that in eight hours WITH a fire burning inside? It was a controlled demolition, Larry Silverstein admitted it. That type of neat implosion takes weeks to plan. I used to watch shows on building razers all the time. I know a thing or two about how they do it. It was a very obvious controlled demolition. Ever seen one go wrong? Even the slighest error makes a building come down very crooked and sloppily. I'm sorry but there is no way in hell that a building could be attacked by terrorists and come down so perfectly.

This is such bullshit. Now you're parroting the Loose Change video.
The fireproof insulation on the trusses was blown off by the severity of the impact, leaving the steel exposed to the intense heat from the burning jet fuel, paper, carpeting, wooden furniture, and anything else flammable within the vicitnity.
When one truss heated to the point of losing structural soundness, the floors started falling. The weight of the floors above it created a domino effect that brought the building down. STRAIGHT DOWN.

Now... You drop the MILLIONS OF TONS of debris that was the collapsing North & South towers within the vicinity of another building, and you tell me how it will affect the structure of that building.

Please don't tell us you're an expert because you watch shows on demolition on Discovery or TLC or whatever. I've seen a building implosion live and in person. It doesn't make me an expert on demolitions by any means.

I'll not quote the rest of your nearly verbatim quoting of Loose Change. It only cheapens the discussion.

Quote:

What do conspiracy theorists have to gain? Obviously ridicule and not much else. I'm not power hungry, and I don't think anyone else with my view is. I just want to be able to live my life the way I want. Bush has stopped me and everyone I know from living their life (as) freely and it's based on a lie. I want the patriot act gone, I want the DHS gone, but most of all I want my freedom back. And at this point, this evidence is the only thing that will EVER make a difference.

How, exactly, are you less free today than you were five years ago, before that tragic day? What restrictions are you facing that weren't there?

OK, if you fly commercially, you have to wait in a longer line to get through security.... If you're calling someone in the middle east, the NSA might be recording your phone calls....

If you're not colluding with terrorists or terrorist suspects, your only restriction is the TSA monkey that jacks with your luggage at the airport and makes you take off your shoes so they can scan them for explosives. Big fucking deal.
Nobody is preventing you from pursuing your dreams any more than they were five years ago. You can still get in your car (or on a plane, a train, a bus or a boat) and travel wherever you choose within the country. You can leave the country if you have proper identification (birth certificate, military paperwork or passport). You can go to school, get a job, eat, drink and be merry.
Maybe I missing this Bush-imposed stranglehold on the population of the United States. Please explain it to me.

***Plainsman1963*** · 06-26-2006, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innervision311

then why would Larry Silverstein say "We decided to PULL the building." He admitted that they brought the building down with controlled demolitions.

These conversations do seem to go around in circles after awhile. Concerning this particular point, I addressed it in this thread. When this conversation was going in that forum.
Here is the relevant part for this subject:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plainsman1963

Quote:

I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, "We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it." And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse.
Said by Larry Silverstein

First off, to make this believable, we all have to agree that to "pull it" means to demolish it with explosives. Now, if we all agree on that (and agree that is what silverstein means as well), all he has said is they made the decision to pull...and then watched it collapse.
So, they made the decision that it couldn't be saved and it would have to be demolished, but it collapsed on it's own.

Thank God we have all these experts to tell us what has happened...I was so worried having to rely on the reports from those damn know nothings that actually went and saw with their own eyes:

W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., P.E., Lead
Senior Vice President
Construction Technologies Laboratories, Skokie, Illinois
Expert in building collapse investigations; principal investigator, Murrah Federal Office Building Study.

William Baker, P.E., S.E. Partner
Skidmore Owings & Merrill LLP
Expert in tall-building design.

Jonathan Barnett, Ph.D.
Professor, Center for Fire Safety Studies
Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, Massachusetts
Expert in building fire safety design and fire computer modeling.

David T. Biggs, P.E.
Ryan-Biggs Associates, Troy, New York
Expert in facades.

Bill Coulbourne, P.E., S.E.
Principal
URS Corporation, Gaithersburg, Maryland

Edward M. DePaola, P.E.
Partner
Severud Associates Consulting Engineers, New York, New York
Expert in structural engineering.

Robert F. Duval
Senior Fire Investigator
National Fire Protection Association
Expert in fire investigations.

Dan Eschenasy
Chief, Structural Engineering
City of New York
Dept of Design and Construction

John T. Fisher, P.E.
Joseph T. Stuart Professor of Civil and Environmental Engineering
Lehigh University, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania
Expert in metallurgy and connections.

Richard G. Gewain
Senior Engineer
Hughes Associates, Inc., Baltimore
Expert in fire engineering.

Ramon Gilsanz
Managing Partner
Gilsanz Murray Steficek, New York, New York
Expert in structural engineering.

John L. Gross, Ph.D., P.E.
Leader
Structural Systems and Design Group Building and Fire Research Laboratory
National Institute of Standards and Technology, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Expert in steel design and fire-structure interaction.

Ronald Hamburger, P.E., S.E.
Senior Vice President
EQE Structural Engineers Division, ABS Consulting, Belmont, California
Expert in structural analysis and design.

Nestor Iwankiw
Vice President, Engineering and Research
American Institute for Steel Construction, Chicago, Illinois
Expert in steel design.

Venkatesh Kodur, Ph.D., P.E.
Institute for Research in Construction
National Research Council of Canada, Ottawa, Ontario
Expert in fire effects on materials.

Eric Letvin
Department Head, Hazards Engineering Group
Greenhorne & O'Mara, Greenbelt, Maryland

Jon Magnusson, P.E.
Chairman of the Board, Chief Executive Officer
Skilling Ward Magnusson Barkshire, Inc., Seattle, Washington
Expert in structural analysis and high-rise design.

Christopher E. Marrion, P.E.
Fire Strategist
Arup Fire, New York, New York
Expert in fire engineering.

Therese P. McAllister, Ph.D., P.E.
Senior Structural Engineer
Greenhorne & O'Mara, Greenbelt, Maryland

James Milke, Ph. D., P.E.
Professor, Department of Fire Protection Engineering
University of Maryland
Expert in fire resistance analysis.

Harold E. "Bud" Nelson
Senior Research Engineer
Hughes Associates, Inc.

James A. Rossberg, P.E.
Director, Structural Engineering Institute
American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE), Reston, Virginia

Saw-Teen See, P.E.
Managing Partner
Leslie E. Robertson Associates, New York, New York
Expert in structural analysis and high-rise design.

Robert Smilowitz
Principal
Weidlinger Associates, New York, New York
Expert in blast effects.

Bruce Swiren
Hurricane Program Manager, Region II
Federal Emergency Management Agency, New York, New York

Paul Tertell, P.E.
Program Manager, Building Performance Assessment Team
Federal Emergency Management Agency, Washington, D.C.

Feel free to read the thread I linked if you haven't already. Might stop us from repeating arguments.

Draig[uk] · 07-05-2006, 09:54 PM

I don't think Bush was responsible, nor do I think Al-Quaeda were responsible. I think there is something much bigger going on than just a single government. For this all to have happened then it must be. It's a tad too conveniant that there is evidence which supports both sides of the argument, if I were illuminati (or some other hidden power) I would be leaving false tracks and getting people arguing. What better way to cover your arse than have people shouting conspiracy and pointing at the Americans. If there is a shadow government, a world government, then they would be very very smart to have not been discovered, etc.

The possibilities are endless, for all you know I could be the mastermind behind it all. My neighbour could be. The point is life goes on, and the sooner we accept that there will ALWAYS be people out to get you, the better. Yeah a terrorist attack could happen and you could be killed, but you could walk out into the road and get hit by a bus. There isn't a war on traffic accidents is there?

People need to stop worrying about if's and maybe's. Yes it is terrible that people die in these attacks, but it is terrible that the only thing that happens is retaliation. 90% of the people living in Afghanistan and Iraq are normal people like you or me, and sure as hell didn't deserve to be bombed. Osama Bin Laden is a terrorist. George Bush is a terrorist. Tony Blair is a terrorist. No-one is to blame here but ourselves for being such a bastardised race.

/rant

**Hashishi** · 07-06-2006, 01:09 PM

Illuminati etc. only exist insofar as there are major centres of power in the form of vast corporations. It could very well be that rich men in the right places made the odd nudge here and there in order to lubricate the Al Qaeda mission. That's as far as I feel comfortable in acknowledging any possible conspiracy over 9/11, and even this I feel stretches the limits of feasability.

I didn't vote "Al Qaeda" because I do not wish to acknowledge the existence of any collective that goes by the name of Al Qaeda. If I wanted to become an international Islamic terrorist what better way to enter with a bang and really put the willies up people than by attributing my crimes to be an "Al Qaeda" mission?

I refuse to limit my world perception by inundating myself with the biased, colloquialist jargon surrounding the "war on terror". It just doesn't gel with a balanced, nonpartisan understanding of the world.

Itzamna · 07-07-2006, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hauptmann

In reference to the "gang" you think did this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pro...Elders_of_Zion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocols_of_zion

here is what i posted ealier on a similar thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itzamna

Warning: offensive material. It's not properly documented and might contain some other gramar mistakes. I would have documented it correctly but..ya know

. Alright, I'm coming from an independent researcher, seeking knowledge in order to find truth. You might have a problem with the post, comment on it! If you personally attack me i will not stand for it and will contact the proper authority before i react. It doesn't matter who i am or what i believe. The jews aren't the only ones to suffer from genocide: People are or have suffering from genocide in sudan, Guatemala, china, cambodia etc. etc. etc. You can find this research in a synagogue library. Most of this is form the video "Other Israel" by Ted Pike, in turn he got his info from Encyclopedia Judaica, The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia 10 volumes, and The Jewish Encyclopedia. With no further a duo.......

Religion a virus?, it depends if you're a jew or a goy. Moses is responsible for the 10 commandments, but another revelation of oral traditions was aquired by 70 elders at the base of the mountain, which took precedence over the written laws. These Sanhedrins or pharices were the greatest authority of law in Israel. Once expelled from Palestine to Babylon in 135 a.d., these pharacies codified the oral traditions called Babylonian Talmud. The Talmud is part of the teachings of the Sephardim jews. So when I say jews, I’m referring to the Sephardim jews not all jews or the Askkenzims jews. The Babylonian Talmud is praised by some jews as the greatest source of light that Judaism will ever know. According to the Talmud a gentile has about as many rights as an animal and is treated practically the same. The treatment of a non jew was justified no matter how degrading or inhuman.
“When a grown up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this(3yrs) it is as if one puts the finger in the eye.” The footnote to the passage reads “(As) tears come back to the eye again and again so does virginity come back to the little girl under 3 years.” Talmud, Kethuboth 11b. These girls are called bond maids. The same section claims sex with a boy under 3 isn’t a sexual act.

In Sanhedrin 77a, It is justified to murder a goy in an indirect manner. These pharacies indirectly are responsible for the death of jesus, yet are able to blame the Romans. The Talmud attacks Mary calling her a whore and scribes declared Christ a bastard. Jesus described the pharacies as hypocrites, children of the devil, murders from the beginning. Jesus denounced the pharacies who made the law of god of none effect, pronouncing the pharacies the most dangerous leadership of the jews. Racial bigots too self righteous to help anyone who is not a jew.Apparently It is true because of the wickedness of the canonites, whom practiced sodomy and infant sacrifice. Israel was commanded by god to be harsh to the inhabitants of the land to destroy the kanonites. This method of preserving gods kingdom by separation and the sword has became obsolete. God no longer made a racial distinction between men. The pharacies were not concerned w/ gods agenda. 5 centuries after Christ, the oral traditions of the Babylonian Talmud were documented. The Jewish Encyclopedia quotes Jesus from hell, refering to the pharicies “Further their well being; do nothing to their detriment; whoever touches them touches the apple of his eye.” As Christianity flourishes the pharices come under pressure to change. This world view has caused conflict w/ non Jews/Christians/goys and has been festering for over a 1,000 years since the Middle Ages. From other readings such as the Zohar, address that living in Christian lands no jew can fully perform what the pharcies demanded. Forming the belief that Once god reveals himself the goys will be wiped off the world, once Israel shakes off the Christian/goy influence heaven will descend to earth.

This is more the point, ;yet might not have anything to do w/ Al Queda

http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/m...y=JEHOVAH&ds=N
http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/m....php?deity=GOD

DIsclaimer: I'm not mormon or religously practice this jehovah

Anyways, that website is a great reference

The war in the middle east is partly a religous war and then you must know the enemy's religous history, not to mention your own!

and who's to know what beliefs of what religion morphed into what demographics and other words like hypocrycies or taxed exempt organizations!?

View Poll Results: Who engineered 9/11?
The Neo-Cons & Bush.	20	32.26%
Al-Qaeda.	17	27.42%
I have no Idea what the truth is.	21	33.87%
Anyone who questions what they tell us is a traitor.	4	6.45%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

06-23-2006, 05:05 PM	#21
hauptmann Seasoned Activist Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 3,340 Grams: 3,340.60 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	It really makes me sad that by watching this video someone could change their mind without researching the video itself. It is no different than any propaganda commercial about marijuana or anything else for that matter. They give you their skewed details mixed in with guessing and plenty of loose ends and you guys are all taking it in hook, line and sinker. Wake up! Sure you have plenty of mistrust for the government, that's a given. But do you have that much mistrust in all of your fellow citizens? Think to yourself, how many American citizens both military and civilian would have to be involved in such a scheme. Do you honestly believe that hundreds of soldiers, policemen, firemen, demo experts and engineers would go ahead and take part in bombing thousands of their friends and family members and then not say a god damn word about it. No, because its complete bullshit. You're just too afraid to accept the fact that these guys were able to take OUR planes and crash them into OUR buildings. You want to desperately believe that this small group couldn't inflict such damage upon us. You want to believe that our government is so omnipotent that they did it and not a small group of terrorists. If you had to accept that this group did this to us that would make you feel vulnerable and frightened. "How could THEY do THAT?" But that's the truth. Wake up and smell the coffee. These sick bastards were planning this for a long time, they put their plan into action and THEY crashed planes into our buildings and killed our brothers and sisters. We did not kill ourselves. And guess what guys, more of their buddies are still trying to do more. So please, either before or after you watch the video type it into google and wikipedia and do a little research. Don't fall into the trap of just believing what this guy says over Dj Smokeblunts' beats. Just read a little, I know its not as easy as watching a video with nice music and it might strain your brain to read the truth but check out the debunking sites about this video, please. Don't fall into the trap of believing a theory after watching an 81 minute video, it makes you look gullible and naive. I hope it doesn't take another building to go down to make you guys believe who is doing this to us. __________________ Marijuana.com Community Posting Guidelines This is my dance song...

06-23-2006, 06:35 PM	#22
Jake Sr. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,578 Grams: 16,840.41 Groans: 38 Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts Thanks: 330 Thanked 900 Times in 567 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: -1.000%	Loose Change is false. They've had to quietly admit to many factual errors, without schanging the video. They don't seem to know that the World Trade Center is built much differently than any other building, and physic comparisions between WTC and other falling buildings hold no relevance. The most compelling part of Loose Change is that Bush et al knew of the attack. They prove this better than the way they "prove" that it was an inside job. My belief is that Bush and everyone knew what was going to happen, and they let it. Synthetic terrorism has been used many times in history. jFK had those plans with Cuba. Our entry into the Spanish American war was based on synthetic terror. It doesn't matter if it was an inside job or not, all that matters is if he knew and didn't stop it. We give up absolute freedom for government protection; this is a social contract outlined by John Locke and was a huge influencer on the Declaration. When our government doesn't protect it's people, it has failed on it's side of the contract and thus should be overthrown __________________

06-25-2006, 06:40 AM	#24
Souke Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 404 Grams: 2,136.82 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Personally I don't think anyone will ever know. and even if it is 100 percent proven, people will always believe what they want to believe. btw, my b-day is 9/11.. sucked that year __________________ Those who lack respect for the natural world, awful things wil happen to them - Lao Tzu 500 BC

07-05-2006, 09:54 PM	#28
Draig[uk] Jr. Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 220 Grams: 1,712.90 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	I don't think Bush was responsible, nor do I think Al-Quaeda were responsible. I think there is something much bigger going on than just a single government. For this all to have happened then it must be. It's a tad too conveniant that there is evidence which supports both sides of the argument, if I were illuminati (or some other hidden power) I would be leaving false tracks and getting people arguing. What better way to cover your arse than have people shouting conspiracy and pointing at the Americans. If there is a shadow government, a world government, then they would be very very smart to have not been discovered, etc. The possibilities are endless, for all you know I could be the mastermind behind it all. My neighbour could be. The point is life goes on, and the sooner we accept that there will ALWAYS be people out to get you, the better. Yeah a terrorist attack could happen and you could be killed, but you could walk out into the road and get hit by a bus. There isn't a war on traffic accidents is there? People need to stop worrying about if's and maybe's. Yes it is terrible that people die in these attacks, but it is terrible that the only thing that happens is retaliation. 90% of the people living in Afghanistan and Iraq are normal people like you or me, and sure as hell didn't deserve to be bombed. Osama Bin Laden is a terrorist. George Bush is a terrorist. Tony Blair is a terrorist. No-one is to blame here but ourselves for being such a bastardised race. /rant __________________ It means no wor-ries, for the rest of your daaaaays! It's our problem free, phil-os-ophy; Hakuna Matata!

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06-25-2006, 05:09 PM	#25
innervision311 Banned Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,313 Grams: 965.06 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	First of all those people in the pictures didn't do the hijacking. Just because they're dark skinned and I'm a raging bleeding heart doesn't mean I love them and think they couldn't do anything wrong. It doesn't hurt me to admit that they did it because who they are or where they come from, it just hurts MY BRAIN to admit that people who flew jets into buildings are still alive. At least seven of those hijackers have been found alive. What evidence is there at all that they were involved? Ok so if the WTC towers were built so differently that they were brought down by 56 minutes of fire that burned at around 2000 degrees, then how did WTC 7 come down? It was "hit by debris" from the towers and came crashing to the ground (with the center krinkle, signature of a controlled demolition) from fire, then why would Larry Silverstein say "We decided to PULL the building." He admitted that they brought the building down with controlled demolitions. Are you so naive that you will believe that a building could be set to be taken down like that in eight hours WITH a fire burning inside? It was a controlled demolition, Larry Silverstein admitted it. That type of neat implosion takes weeks to plan. I used to watch shows on building razers all the time. I know a thing or two about how they do it. It was a very obvious controlled demolition. Ever seen one go wrong? Even the slighest error makes a building come down very crooked and sloppily. I'm sorry but there is no way in hell that a building could be attacked by terrorists and come down so perfectly. Also how could the integrity of the entire frame of the towers be comprimised by a fire that burned for under an hour in one location? If the steel had melted and caused the collapse, only a small section would have collapsed. But here's another interesting point. The steel supposedly burned for about an hour at 2000 degrees F. The company that certified the steel wrote a letter saying that every piece of steel they sell is stress tested at 2000 degrees for many hours. Not until about 3000 degrees F will steel become molten. So...even if there weren't explosives planted (sure...what were the massive explosions that occured seconds before the towers fell?) how do you explain an entire collapse of three buildings (one with dissimilar architecture) into a pile of dust??? Like I said I was a skeptic too and didn't want to believe that Bush was the antichrist because of what it meant but there is so much evidence that I can't deny what I know is the truth any longer. And my final point. What does Bush have to gain from 9/11? Has any president in the history of this country ever done more things to rape the constitution and make it their own? Do you know why we let him? We're stopping the freedom-hating terrorists. Don't you see how you've been coerced? If Bill Clinton bombed someone without any reason or evidence they would have not only impeached him but removed him as well. Bush has the pretext of 9/11 to do whatever he wants. What do conspiracy theorists have to gain? Obviously ridicule and not much else. I'm not power hungry, and I don't think anyone else with my view is. I just want to be able to live my life the way I want. Bush has stopped me and everyone I know from living their life (as) freely and it's based on a lie. I want the patriot act gone, I want the DHS gone, but most of all I want my freedom back. And at this point, this evidence is the only thing that will EVER make a difference.

07-06-2006, 01:09 PM	#29
Hashishi Unf*ckwit'able Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,018 Grams: 23,602.55 Groans: 4 Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts Thanks: 834 Thanked 993 Times in 571 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Illuminati etc. only exist insofar as there are major centres of power in the form of vast corporations. It could very well be that rich men in the right places made the odd nudge here and there in order to lubricate the Al Qaeda mission. That's as far as I feel comfortable in acknowledging any possible conspiracy over 9/11, and even this I feel stretches the limits of feasability. I didn't vote "Al Qaeda" because I do not wish to acknowledge the existence of any collective that goes by the name of Al Qaeda. If I wanted to become an international Islamic terrorist what better way to enter with a bang and really put the willies up people than by attributing my crimes to be an "Al Qaeda" mission? I refuse to limit my world perception by inundating myself with the biased, colloquialist jargon surrounding the "war on terror". It just doesn't gel with a balanced, nonpartisan understanding of the world. __________________ <Taki> I swear I just took a dump with well defined anatomical features <Taki> a long smooth tail and a bunch of little hardened pellets making up a complex head <Taki> I didn't want to flush it, it's probably the closest thing I'll have to a son <bryant> I think in the 3 days I've seen you in this channel you've done a better job keeping me in school and off drugs than every authority figure I've met in my entire life. <Taki> I do what I can

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