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dedbr

Ya never get a real feel for government till it's used against you in a court of law.

From personal experience.....this is the most dishonorable bunch of people that are in charge that I have ever been associated with.

My life has been affected. I know what is going on. The good old boy network is alive and well. Money talks and bullshit still walks. It really is who ya know.

I'm paranoid because I know my enemies. I have been their prisoner......


Some Where In Ded Land..........

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"Starry, starry night, Paint your pallet blue and gray, Look out on a summers day,
With eyes that know the darkness of my soul, Shadows on the hills, Sketch the trees and the daffodils, Catch the breeze and the winter chill, In colors in the snowy linen land......"

Vincent.... Don Mclean


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gryphin

When I first started reading your post I actually was nodding my head and agreeing. But then I thought about it a little more and realized this: Sure the government isn't watching supermarket cams or mall cams or whatever, and they aren't monitering every little word you type on the internet or watching everything you purchase. BUT, what about if you somehow, most likely by pure accident, do something that makes you pop up on their radar? In this day and age they now have the ability to, if they take an interest in you, follow your retroactively and find out an incredible amount of your personal buisness(activities, friends, interests, purchases, routines, etc. the list goes on and on). For them to do that to terrorists, ok I can see their point. BUt anything powerful will sooner or later, and usually sooner, fall into the wrong hands. And then God help us all.

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Higher Logic

Whenever I hear someone say something like, "Well this really doesn't effect you" or, my favorite, "If you're doing nothing wrong" line, then I always think of this quote:

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JnEverett

Thats a great quote....I couldn't agree more. I will have to make note of that and use it when I hear such arguments.

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troublemaker_42

AMen HL, thats one of the wisest quotes to be found. I agree with that line of thinking completely. Warrantless survellience, tapped calls and emails, etc may not seem like a big deal to a lot of people. They assume soince they aren't terrorists, they don't have anything to worry about. Fair enough. What worries me is not so much the CURRENT use of such tactics, but what is to come. The governement is great at attempting to take our rights when it is convinient for them, but getting those rights back isn't nearly so easy. I'm not worried about being labeled as a terrorist so much as I'm afraid of these new technologies being implemented in tracking down people for other purposes or crimes. I'm sorry, but I find it rather scary to think the very govt I depend on to protect me can also compile databases worth of info about me based on my phone records and internet activity, or even my shopping history. I'm not a terrorist by any means, but that doesn't mean I'm at all open to my privacy being ripped to shreds, to the point where the words "private" or "confidential" means nothing. People like Blondie refuse to acknowledge that while currently, we don't have a whole lot to worry about, the potential for more and bigger invasions of our private lives certainly exists. All they need is an excuse....and you are way too trusting if you don't think they are looking for one as we speak. I haven't lost faith completely in our govt, but I'm also not naive enough to trust them wholeheartedly. Right now, i'm just holding my breath, hoping Georgie doesn't fuck anything else up too badly before he goes on his merry way. I think the next administration is going to have it work cut out for it, trying to earn the trust of the common man once again.

Blondie, you oversimplfy things far too much. You seem to believe that if it doesn't interrupt YOUR day or life, then its permissable. I'm guessing you don't own a gun. Would it bother you if all guns were banned tommorrow? I've gathered from your posts that you hetrosexual....should gay rights be ignored? After all, YOU aren't gay, so what does it matter? I'll go further out on a limb. I'm guessing you aren't Jewish. Would it be ok with you if the US govt denounced the Jewish religion next week, and made practicing it a criminal offense? just because something doesn't put a knot in your panties today doesn't mean its ok to just look the other way when you see someone else's rights being trampled. My rights are no more important than anyone elses. Why should the Islamic family down the street from you have their calls to their loved ones in the Middle East be traced or recorded, when you can call your relatives across town with no problems? Is that "their problem" simply because they happen to be of another descent than you or I? or is it OUR problem, because OUR governemnt thinks its fine to eveasdrop on their calls, based on a profile they may fit? I tend to see it as a problem we all need to ackwoledge, while you are content to ist ideally by, blissfully ignornat of civil rights being abused right under your nose, because they haven't messed up your day to day life....yet.

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You CANNOT help the poor by destroying the rich.
You CANNOT strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You CANNOT bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You CANNOT lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.
You CANNOT further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You CANNOT build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence.
You CANNOT help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.
I'll stick to my guns, money, religion and freedom...you can keep the change

 

dreamer

well in my opinion things have already fallen into the wrong hands, and if there is a god we need the help NOW.
TM, tottally agree with that post man. it may not affect you, or me right now, but i care about later and i also care about other peoples freedom.
i think america is long overdue for a revolt of the people

Dark

I certainly do believe the line has been crossed, to much extent, but do you really think that the day will come, where you have to run off into the woods, live off the land and never show your face again?? Our freedoms are being taken away, and we need to stand up for our freedoms, but it certainly won't cause such a catastrophe as this.

Dornta, you are so against the US gov't, and everything it stands for, why don't you leave? Honestly, there ARE options, and sitting here paranoid and trying to make others' paranoid do not help. I surely would hope that before the day came that you had to "run off into the woods with nothing by my own two hands" you would find another country to live in! I somehow feel that you stay, just so that IF the day does come, you will be around to say "I told you so". High hopes...

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DaDornta

I almost feel like I should have put more options down for this poll..is there a way to do that now or is it kinda stuck in stone?

I apreaciate everyone participating in this discussion. I think just being aware that if we dont WATCH our government, they'll run us down (civil liberties-wise) before we know it.

This insn't about republican ideals or democrat ideals...it's about fundemental freedom that the the founding farthers established over 200 years ago. These ideas are indeed supposed to be maleable to, "reflect the times"...but that isn't what we are seeing, people.

We are seeing these ideals changed, slowly at first and then eliminated completley whille we just sort of go, "oh well, i have nothing to hide right?"

Before to long there will be a hair that breaks the cammel's back--I hope by then most of you have prepared yourselves mentally for what you choose...

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CheebaMonkey

What other options would you like DD?

Put me down for it's already been crossed.

There are some places where I think peaceful means are still practical, such as what the Free State Project is trying to accomplish in New Hampshire. I really hope I can join them someday soon.

As for the behemoth that the federal government has become... I believe what Plains said is correct.

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Bowlblaze

And just because I'm outside the U.S. doesn't mean I'm not affected by all this. Steven Harper is really just Bush's obedient little lapdog. It's only a matter of time before we get stuck with these ID cards too. Although I think it would be funny as hell if some computer genius found a way to fuck with the government and reprogram the chip. For me, my respect for the American governemnt was torn to shreds the day the Patriot Act came in to being. It's going to take you guys a generation of good government to erase Bush's 8 years from the international community's minds and regain some respect.
And please, stand up for your rights while it's still legal. Your right to privacy isn't all Bush wants to take away, freedom of speech is next in my opinion.

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The government thinks we're all criminals. The people who are really the criminals are the people who view pot smokers as being no better than rapists, murderers, or corrupt politions
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