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SpiralArchitect

We never should've invaded Afghanistan. We never should've invaded Iraq.

We invaded Afghanistan to attempt to retaliate against the Al Qaeda/Taliban's attacks on us. Little to no progress has been made, besides us constructing tons of military bases, and cementing our foothold in this country. Al Qaeda operates out of the shadows, even if were were go somehow destroy a few of their key leaders, someone else would just take their spot - another organization, or other leaders.

We invaded Iraq to 'disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, to end Saddam Hussein's support for terrorism, and to free the Iraqi people'. Look where it has gotten us now. Again, little to no progress has been made. Iraqi's are not only killing US soldiers, but Iraqi's themselves. We never found any WMD, there were none. And the Iraqi people sure ain't free yet, not even close. The radicals/extremists, they just don't give a shit anymore. Sad but true.

You sure about that? What about when the Nazi's killed millions of innocent people. That was warfare. What about when we dropped bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima, the majority of the casualties being civilians? That was warfare. What about our constant air raids in the middle east? That is warfare. Semantics aside, it's true, war can be waged in many more than just conventional, traditional methods. Warfare simply put is engaging in conflict with an enemy. Terrorism although being one of the shallowest and despicable methods, it is one of the most effective. Nothing can beat fear, not even the biggest guns and most powerful bombs.

The 9/11 attacks were warfare, and they initiated our direct involvement and attempt at retaliation. We should've known that 9/11 was going to fucking happen - shit we DID know it was going to happen, but because of a lack of competent administration and a failure on local, state, and federal levels we are now going to have to 'stick to our guns'. A pound of prevention is worth two pounds of protection they say - too bad it's too late...

Imagine if 9/11 never happened. Do you think we would've invaded Iraq? No, not likely. Afghanistan definitely not. The terrorists have us, for lack of better way to put it, by the balls. They may be two separate conflicts, but they are VERY much linked and related.

Look at how effective it was in these extremist hands, we are now fighting Al-Qaeda/Taliban/Iraqi-crazies in their own country, on their own turf, through their methods at their pace.

Sure, it's better than fighting on American soil, but honestly - with how much money, time, and more importantly - lost life - has been spent on this war, I see no option of their being an acceptable resolution, 'the shit long ago hit the fan'. I guess that's the way with any war.

And sadly it always will be. Even if we took out their leaders, the minions would step up to their place, they are viewing this war as their religious right, with a fanaticism and passion that is almost equal to America's undying obsession with spreading democracy, justice, and our way of life upon the world.

I agree w/ you dedbr, I can live with uncomfortable interrogation methods, how else can you expect to extract information from an enemy? Over tea and a civil discussion? Not likely.

However, torture is simply lowering ourselves to their level. We need to treat our enemies with respect, as crazy as it sounds. If they won't talk even under the most uncomfortable situations - kill them. We have no use for them. Call that rash, and hypocritical, but the sweet release and justice of execution out weighs the despicable, undeserving act of torture. We don't need to house them, feed them, and clothe them. We don't need to torture or humiliate them either. Kill them, in their eyes dying for Jihad is a direct passage to 'heaven', so lets give them what they want. Perhaps execution is harsh, but I'd rather be held responsible for the death of an enemy, than the cost of feeding/protecting/etc. him for his smug amusement, or the degradation of the enemy through torture.

Give up the war? Shit. We might as well, however it takes more character and power to admit defeat than to keep fighting. Do you really think us pouring more and more into this war will somehow change the perspective the world has on America? No.

Even if we win, their is the trillions and trillions of dollars spent, the countless loss of life, the rampant destruction, the torn apart families, countries, and brothers. I don't know what we should do, but the LAST thing we need to do is add unrelenting torture practices to to the history book in the chapter of our already fucked up war.

I'm sure someone will come up with a few responses or what-have-yous to my post, but it's not likely I will respond back. I don't want to fuel any fire, I don't want to make an argument, I just wanted to state a few facts and rhetoric. Indeed we have gotten very off topic. It really saddens me the state of affairs the world is in, actually it disgusts me....

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dedbr

Bomber kills 6, including US soldier - Yahoo! News

I guess we're not the only ones who torture. Seems like the Al-q's have a factory set up for it. Multiple tortures at once....More efficient that way I suppose, huh?

This is not the only one they've found, either.......


Some Where In Ded Land..............

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SpiralArchitect

I dont think it was ever really a question if the American gov't are the only ones torturing people dedbr,

I skimmed that article, and it seems to me - with these roadside/suicide bombs, they usually kill 1-2 US soldiers, but end up killing 10+ Iraqi civilians. It seems they are not only trying to take out a few soldiers but incite absolute fear in everyone....

It's a sad fucking world we live in....

What happen to 'peace, love, and understanding?!?!?!?!