"Conversations with God"

I am .I.. SIC ..I.
i have read a book called conversations with God and have found a very logical reason for mans existance and our seemingly omnipotent ability to adapt to our changing world.
God is in each of us.
Jesus is God's way of showing us the power we all have to find a greater good.
The details of Jesus' influence in the world as a man are inconsequential.
Of course Jesus died for our sin but God is all knowing and powerful.
He knows the story because he writes it in each and everyone of our lives. Here in your heart he is alive.
But because wrong can never be understood without the comprehension of good vs. evil, there is still two fates.
Eternal life or eternal death.
Duality.
it is everywhere in the world.
it is the seams of life duality.
all things come from one.
could there be a holy spirit without God to will it?
holy spirit and jesus only exist because we do.
God is what we are.
God is the chemical in your brain that causes the thought, im hungry, or that person is attractive.
God is the tree in your yard.
God is the material our reality is made from.
God has many houses in many groups of many mansions.
and each is different.
All is so God can experience The Greatness He is.

Never read it.. I remember hearing that Alanis Morissette had something to do with it, so naturally I was interested but I never followed up.

Yes. God: The Ultimate Narcissist.

If anyone else sat around all the time contemplating his own wonderfulness and demanding worship you'd call him a self-centered asshole...

The world exsists so god can know hes awesome? If hes so awesome, why does he need a constant reminder? Seems kind of fishy to me...

Hey! Everyone just remember 'It must be the best possible and most balanced world, because it was created by a perfect God'

Can you do better? ^

So that explains why people keep screaming "self-centered asshole!" at me...

Duh, he was always picked last for dodgeball and thus developed some insecurity issues.

...on the other hand I once started an ant farm just in the hopes that they would worship me...

...but then on the other other hand I was never picked first in dodgeball either so...yup its the insecurity one.

PLEASE, LOVE ME!

God apologized for the inconvenience before abandoning His creation.

That's good enough for me

Anandoning his creation? He sent his son to earth to go threw tremendous amounts of pain and suffering just to save us. That doesnt really sound like abandoning to me...

Please cite one historical reference outside of the Bible that mentions the supposedly historical Jesus. Take as long as you need...

Flavius Josephus. Antiquities of the Jews. 93 CE.
Tacitus. Annals. c. 116 CE.

Neither claims his divinity, but they both say he existed. And since they were a lot closer to the time in question than we are, I think I'll have to give them the benefit of the doubt. I also recall something by one of the Pliny's, but I cannot remember which and where it was from.

As a side note- rmish, you poor poor soul. Go read the entire Hitchhiker's series.

I do not subscribe to any organized religion. I have a belief that there is something more out there, but I cannot say what. I can say that I really don't think it's omniscient, omnipotent, and benevolent god. And I'll also say I believe life to be worth living for itself. It would be interesting for there to be a reason and to know it, and I will keep searching, but if there turns out to be just life, I'll be okay with it. I'll still have learned much in my quest for truth, so it won't even be wasted time.

And one last thing, rmish- it wasn't really anything THAT extraordinary. Lots of people fasted, and lots of people got crucified. Lots of those who got crucified were tortured much worse than Yeshua bin Yosef supposedly was. And some of those guys were innocent too.

Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting reading at any rate. Granted, wikipedia is hardly the be all and end all of proof but it certainly seems balanced to me as to the question of whether or not Jesus was a historic figure. What proof would you require Higher Logic? It's not like we are going to find birth or death certificates or photographic evidence of any type.

I can understand arguing the point of whether or not Jesus was divine, but whether he existed at all? It seems to make far more sense to me that He did exist, was a teacher and perhaps his divinity exaggerated than to believe that his very existence was made up out of thin air.

THC Fiend:
As far as God abandoning his creation goes.....I feel that we have abandoned Him. Human beings as a race have become so convinced of their own superiority and abilities that they can not accept anything that can not be researched and dissected.

Those that do still believe in God have become so convinced in the superiority of their church, their religion, and their human religious leaders that their arrogance has also caused them to abandon God to instead worship the human trappings that are supposedly in honor of Him.

Sigh, I guess I was too subtle last time. Don't worry, THC Fiend, at least one other member here knows where their towel is.

EDIT- I've been told this sounds sort of like an insult. It's not. It's referring to a kind-of inside joke. I think it would ruin the fun if I explained it here, so I'll just say this- go read So Long And Thanks for All The Fish (preferably the entire Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series... or you're a poseur ) by Douglas Adam's and you'll understand THC Fiend's joke. That's right... EARN your initiation into the inside joke! EARN IT!

"Sigh, I guess I was too subtle last time. Don't worry, THC Fiend, at least one other member here knows where their towel is."

Pardon? I can only assume that you are talking to or about me somehow since mine was the only post made between the two of yours....but you are being so darn subtle I might be missing something.

EDIT in Response to ITG's Edit: I guess I wasn't being called dense so I can now move on and go read a few books.

Because I dont believe what you believe and I have a relationship with God im a poor poor soul? Because you go around looking for more but cant find it, im the poor soul? I feel like im fortunate to have already found something for me...

Jesus got beat n tortured basically as far as you can go before death.. Thats more than I can say im willing to bare for others..

No, rmish, I was calling you a poor poor soul because you didn't get the joke THC Fiend made, and therefore have not read the wonder of the Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy series. That's what that whole line was. It had nothing to do with your beliefs. Those were two different complete thoughts there. That's why they were different paragraphs.

And no, according to the actual words of the bible, he wasn't tortured within an inch of death unless you count the actual method of execution. He was given 40 lashes- the same degree of punishment given to petty criminals before they were released. Then he was forced to wear a sharp crown of thorns- certainly not pleasant, but far from the worst of torture techniques. Then he carried a big heavy cross for something like 3 miles. Again, not very pleasant, but not a whole lot different from some of the old jailbird working lines, It's something you don't want to have happen to you, but it's still a fairly mild form of torture. The greatest form of torture wrought upon him was the actual crucifixion itself, which is an excruciatingly painful process. But countless were crucified. It was, very frankly, not an extraordinary event in the slightest. It was beneath mention in any more than a few passages of actual historical documents.

And while I don't say that you're wrong to believe what you believe, I believe that my constant searching for truth rather than subscribing to an established belief structure and accepting it as truth has enriched my life. I have gotten to see all sorts of different perspectives, heard all sorts of different ideas, and talk with all sorts of different thinkers. Even if it's a fruitless search, even if one of the religions were right, I still won't consider it time wasted- I've learned so much from it, and stand to learn so much more.

Ok i apologize for that, but again im not saying that Jesus went threw the worst physical torture to man. But i guess what I believe is that Jesus took all the sins of men past and present and all the sickness, diseases, etc at the cross with him. But since Jesus suffered at the cross the spiritual, physical & mental infirmities of EVERY PERSON in all of human history - past, present & future - God can give healing for those who would receive it. People who've been crucified before him suffered the physical side, in my opinion Jesus suffered spiritually, physically, and mentally. You also gotta realize Jesus was "rejected" by his father which he never experienced before. Thats my opinion anyways..

Wikipedia lists 4 main sources for Jesus:

1. Josephus
2. Tacitus
3. Suetonius
4. Pliny

1. Josephus
The only person who talks about Jesus outside of the Bible. He was a Jewish historian, and even his two paragraphs that talk about Jesus are dismissed all scholars and even some Christian apologists as forgeries. Either way, this is not proof.

2. Tacitus
He wrote in his Annals (55-120 CE) that Christians "derived their name and origin from Christ, who, in the reign of Tiberius, had suffered death by the sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilate" (Annals 15.44).

Now this one looks promising, no? Tacitus wrote in 116 CE about the Christians that existed in Rome during Nero's time between 54-68 CE. We know that Nero existed. He mentions about a christ that was sent to death by Pontius Pilot (remember, the term christ is not specific to Jesus). This sounds like Jesus, except for the fact that the term Christ was a Hebrew word for Messiah, or annointed one, and it was given to many people. He never mentions Jesus either. Tacitus also talked about how the Christian belief was nothing but superstition.

Wikipedia says the same thing. We can scratch him off the list too.

3. Suetonius
Around 120 CE, he wrote this in The Lives of the Caesarsa:

"Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Emperor Claudius in 49 CE] expelled them from Rome." (Claudius 5.25.4)

Chrestus != Jesus Christ

Suetonius wrote about Chrestus, a popular Roman name meaning "good" or "useful." It was common among salves, as his passage dealt with the slave revolt. He wasn't talking about Jesus either.

I see Wikipedia also confirms the good and useful bit as well, so we can scratch him off the list too.

4. Pliny

You guessed it, he never mentions Jesus Christ either.

"Pliny the Younger, the provincial governor of Pontus and Bithynia, wrote to Emperor Trajan c. 112 concerning how to deal with Christians, who refused to worship the emperor, and instead worshiped "Christus". The name "Jesus" is not used."

Pliny the Younger, writing near 100 CE, corresponded regularly with the emperor Trajan. In these writings, Pliny specifically mentions and describes the beliefs and practices of Christians in Asia Minor, and asks Trajan's advice about what action to take against them, if any. However, Pliny's writings provide no independent confirmation of the events of the New Testament, but merely show that there were indeed Christians living in Asia Minor.

Christus was a god. And the word Christ was used for lots of people. I asked for historical evidence that mentions Jesus H. Christ, not Jesus Gonzales, not Markos Christus. We can scratch Pliny off the list too...

It's simple really, if you can provide proof for something, it's reasonable, and follows to a logical conclusion, then I have no problem accepting it. If you cannot, then I cannot either. How come we're so quick to say that other godmen "absolutely" did not exist, like Zeus, but when it comes to Jesus, well, of course he must have existed right?

It would be far stranger if there were a lot of "historical" documents on Jesus. He was not a king, he was not a world traveler, there was no CNN or even phones. There do exist accounts of his existence but you dismiss them because they are in the Bible. People that met him and heard his teachings have written down stories about him and talked about him as a real person but because the handful of historians at the time (or at least the ones that we have current access to) have no first hand knowledge of him you speak dismissively of his very existence.

Even if we could provide some sort of historical document that has managed to not be destroyed, can still be read, or can be translated I doubt it would make much difference. I ask again....what "proof" of his existence would satsify you? I am not talking about proof that he was divine, but that he existed at all?

"It's simple really, if you can provide proof for something, it's reasonable, and follows to a logical conclusion, then I have no problem accepting it. If you cannot, then I cannot either."

It's simple on my part too....I don't expect you to accept a thing, nor do I expect that anyone could ever find the kind of proof that you require.

"How come we're so quick to say that other godmen "absolutely" did not exist, like Zeus, but when it comes to Jesus, well, of course he must have existed right?"

Who is this "we" that you speak of? I have seen no claims that Zeus "absolutely" did not exist in this thread. Of course I have also never seen any claims that he did exist either from historians or not. Are there even any religions that still believe in the existence of Zeus? If there are then I would be interested in what they have to say.

For all I know there was at one point a man called Zeus that all of the mythology appeared around but I have never seen anyone claim as much. Zeus and his cohorts were one interpretation of God so therefore I can't see trying to find physical proof. Really it's apples and oranges here.

Jesus was a man and his actual physical existence is important to the Christian faith. His life and death have been perhaps the most scrutinized of any historical figure simply because those that wish to prove that Christians are misguided want to prove he didn't exist and those that wish to affirm their faith want to find anything to prove that he did exist. There is no similiar motivation with Zeus.

I guess I am failing to see your point Higher Logic except as a personal statement that you don't believe because you have no proof. Congratulations....you are hardly alone.