Drug Test Defense Idea

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by CUAN4life, Aug 13, 2003.

  1. CUAN4life CUAN4life

    • New Member
    • Since: May 5, 2002
    • Posts: 170
    I was wondering if this could hold up in court...
    Now I know if someone fails a drug test they can not claim they were around people smoking, but did not inhale ( the Clinton Defense) as there is not thc in second hand smoke. But is it not possible that if you are in a car (hot boxing) with friends or even a concert or something where there is a large concentration of marijuana smoke that you would inhale first hand smoke, because joints and blunts do emit smoke from the end that is burning and that would be first hand smoke. In theory if there was enough of this smoke in an enclosed area that someone could breathe in and it show up in a drug test.
  2. Niteshift Niteshift

    • L.E.O. in Good Standing
    • Since: Dec 5, 2000
    • Posts: 12,864
    First, let me say that I think "hotboxing" is a bad idea. I never approve of mixing mj use with cars. It's quite often not done in ones own driveway, which means someone will drive home.

    And for those who are going to tell me "I do it in my own driveway", well good for you......... you're just giving me and/or the dog probable cause to search your car every time you get stopped because the smell stays 99% of the time.


    As for your actual question: It depends on the method of testing. If the test is conducted with a chromatograph (sp?), then it can tell if yousmoked or got it second hand in most cases. However, I'm not sure if being in a highly concentrated area, like hotboxing (as opposed to someone smoking a joint in the car like "normal") would throw that off.

    Want the theoretical arguement? One could argue that you know it's pot burning, you chose to stay in the concentrated area of it, were effected by the second hand smoke, so you essentially DID smoke pot by choice.
  3. CUAN4life CUAN4life

    • New Member
    • Since: May 5, 2002
    • Posts: 170
    Thanks niteshift, i figured it was a pretty weak argument, but it was an idea. Though what if you went to a concert in an indoor arena, you couldn't really be held responsible for the thousands of others in attendence.
  4. Niteshift Niteshift

    • L.E.O. in Good Standing
    • Since: Dec 5, 2000
    • Posts: 12,864
    No, you wouldn't be responsible, but a chromatography test would show that.

    However, if you are getting only a basic sort of test, it might. At that point, you'd probably have to spend your own money, getting the more exact test to prove your case.
  5. S2 S2

    • Just another bonehead
    • Since: Dec 30, 2000
    • Posts: 2,188
    FWIW The differences between the Standard Assay test and a GC/MS is that an assay test will give a yes or no result based on a certain threshold (typically 50 nanograms/liter) where as a GC/MS will provide the actual concentration of the specific metabolites at a much lower cutoff. Labs rarely run GC/MS as the primary test-- usually they test with Assay, then send the positive test in for GC/MS verification to eliminate any argument of false positive.
    studies done to determine if second hand smoke can trigger a positve test have shown that you need to have an extrordinary concentration in order to test positive and casual exposure to second hand smoke--certainly way more than a concert-- basically you would nearly have to be asphyxiated due to displaced oxygen in order to get enough to show up in your urine.

    The argument would not hold up

    GC/MS cant really directly distinguish between directly inhaled versus indirectly-- onlyt the concnetration in the sample--one could infer that a very low concentration was due to passive inhalation but there are many many other reasons for a low versus high concentration including amount smoked over what period of time and length of tie since last smoked

    from the perspective of most authorities who are testing there is little interest as to how it got in you--only that its there or not.

    Bingo! Give the cop a cupie doll!:D
  6. Niteshift Niteshift

    • L.E.O. in Good Standing
    • Since: Dec 5, 2000
    • Posts: 12,864
    GC/MS cant really directly distinguish between directly inhaled versus indirectly-- onlyt the concnetration in the sample--one could infer that a very low concentration was due to passive inhalation but there are many many other reasons for a low versus high concentration including amount smoked over what period of time and length of tie since last smoked

    I wasn't clear when I said that I guess. That's why I mentioned specifically that I didn't know if hotboxing would throw it off because of the concentration.

    from the perspective of most authorities who are testing there is little interest as to how it got in you--only that its there or not.

    The Army was an exception to that.

    The sample was tested 3 times, the 3rd being a GC to see if they could determine if it was second hand or not before any disciplinary action was taken.

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