Marijuana & Weight Loss

Discussion in 'Surveys, Polls and Questions' started by denis_bda, May 5, 2004.

  1. denis_bda denis_bda

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    I'm new to these forums and I have an idea that I'd like to get some input on.

    I reciently took a university course on drugs and behavior in society, and I learned quite a bit about the effects of Marijuana.

    Some of the things I noted:

    1. Initially, pot incur's the "munchies" in novice users, however chronic users typically do not get the munchies, and often pot will exhibit appetitite suppression.

    2. Marijuana when ingested into the body (through whichever means), is sent to the brain as well as stored in fat. Chronic users experience a buildup of THC in their fat which is slowly released over time, which causes pot to not have physically addictive traits.

    3. Ingested Marijuana is metabolized in the liver - chronic users metabolize THC faster then occasional users (as their liver becomes more efficient at it)

    This encouraged me to come up with the following hypothesis:

    1. If THC was consumed by a chronic individual as an appetite suppressant (as it cures boredom better then food, ie sugar).

    2. The user then quits chronic use and substantially lowers daily ingestion of THC, but continues his developed habit of eating less (600-800 calories a day, while supplimenting with necessary vitamins for calcium loss and missing nutrients)

    Would this encourage the metabolization of fat to keep levels of THC in the blood at a non-withdrawl level?
    Since the liver is metabolizing fat at a relatively constant rate to keep levels high, could it be assumed that the body's metabolism may increase and promote rapid weight loss?

    I have personally been testing this theory and have gone from weighing 270 pounds to about 230 in about 2 months.

    I am however reluctant to attribute my success directly to marijuana as obviously other factors such as my own personal will and drive may have attributed for my successful curving of my appetite.

    I would appreciate any feedback on this and would like comments from anyone else who may have experienced similar benefits, or even those who can give me opposition as to why this theory may be incorrect.
  2. hauptmann hauptmann

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    Well you have it all wrong. Marijuana is NOT physically addictive, there is no such thing as physiogical withdrawl, only a mental dependance. The "THC" that is stored in your fat are inactive metabolites and are not psychoactive at all. And the munchies are not just a phenomena among novice users. I think you should just eat healthier food in moderation and take in plenty of fluids, water is key when you want to lose weight. I would not say marijuana is an appetite suppressant at all, it is infact used to stimulate appetite. However marijuana's psychoactive aspects could cause a person to change the way a person views food and themselves therefore creating a stronger or weaker will power against over eating.

    Whoever taught this class has not done enough research on this topic to fully understand the effects of marijuana. I have spoken with a toxicologist about this very subject so I am sure of what I am saying.
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  3. denis_bda denis_bda

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    I believe I was misunderstood and as such I will clarify a few things

    I was supporting the fact that marijuana is NOT physically addictive...

    I was taught that this is due to the steady release of THC into the bloodstream from where it is stored in fat.

    I am also not discussing the psychological benefits of marijuana that is released from fat as levels would be too low to obtain any noticible effect.

    Physical addiction is believed to come from withdrawl. Marijuana does not produce withdrawl and this has been attributed it is the steady release of THC into the bloodstream which causes the body to naturally ween itself off the drug.

    I do agree that marijuana would also change a persons psychological view of food and affect willpower.

    I would also like to state that I believe neither your toxicologist nor my prof may be correct in their research and knowledge. Very little clinical research has been done to actually prove the affects and influences of marijuana, as such, this is the basis of my bringing this topic to this forum.
    I simply wish to ask those out there who have personally tried similar methods and their subsequent experiences.
  4. hauptmann hauptmann

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    Withdrawl is caused by the lack the actual drug not its residual metabolites. The steady release of metabolites has no effect on your body whatsoever. Your saying marijuana metabolites curb withdrawl symptons, but if withdrawl is being curbed then there must be a such thing as cannabis withdrawl, which there is not. And by you saying that withdrawl does exist your are saying that it is addictive. Metabolites are inert waste, they do nothing. They do not curb withdrawl that does not exist.

    If that makes any sense.
  5. denis_bda denis_bda

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    Your point makes perfect sense. However, it was suggested in my class that a recent study had been done on rats using a drug that acts to remove/inhibit the effects of marijuana on the brain and body.

    This subsequently produced a withdrawl because the lack of ability of remaining THC to ween the user off. So it could be determined that marijuana is capable of producing withdrawl if its specific effects are counteracted, however, this has not been supported with subsequent studies yet.

    Unfortunately, I do not have a direct reference to this study at the moment and I have a very limited knowledge in the field which makes it more difficult to find such studies.
  6. hauptmann hauptmann

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    Well the person doing that study does not grasp the concepts of withdrawl and addiction. You say the drug in this study merely inhibits and removes the effects of marijuana. This would mean that the marijuana is still present in its active form in the body, its effects are just being counteracted. For physical withdrawl to take place the drug must be absent in its active form. This study may point to a psychological addiction to thc among the rats which we already know does exist.
  7. denis_bda denis_bda

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    I beleive your taking my specific words too much as fact, and not as much as hearsay... I am regurgitating information I only reciently learned while focusing heavily on my other studies.

    My exact knowledge of the specific details is not clear as I do not have a concrete underlying understanding of the way the body works.
    As such, I am generalising much of the details that I do not understand.

    This is why I chose generalizing terms such as inhibits/removes and effects rather then be more specific of its actual function. I am not extensively familar with the specific terminology as well as the given material to support or deny my claims.

    However, I do believe that given a better understanding of the underlying material I could better explain to you the exact effects of the drug. I am however not an expert.

    As such, I would ask that if you were to "assume" that a drug were to exist that acts as I describe.
    Given this assumption, it could be determined that present understanding and knowledge of the effects of marijuana may be wrong (also supported by the limited number of studies available on marijuana in comparison to the many other drugs prevalent in society)
    Then it could be assumed that the understanding of marijuana's potential for withdrawl may be flawed, and as such, marijuana may produce withdrawl.

    If this were true, would it then be feasible to reason that my hypothesis indeed may hold some value?

    I will attempt to track down the study and increase my knowledge in this area so that I may better explain the exact details of the study and it's findings. However, in the meantime I would ask that you bear with me and rather then instantly refut my argument as wrong, open your mind and consider your knowledge in the area and the potential for it to be skewed towards your present refusal to consider my opinion.

    I would also like to add, that I would appreciate it if we could consider only my presented opinion, and not attack the competency of my sources as I am simply repeating information of which I may be doing so unclearly or incorrectly. As such, your attacks instead target my competency and ability to explain their extensive knowledge accurately of which I am not capable of doing and as I am not them and I am simply repeating only my understanding. Not their specific knowledge.
  8. denis_bda denis_bda

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    I would like to follow up with a reference to this post where someone else has previously also supported my claim of a study suggesting the withdrawl symptoms of marijuana.

    http://www.marijuana.com/420/showthread.php?t=26397


    Furthermore, my hypothesis is focused around the body actively metabolizing the THC stored in fat (active or not) and if there would be any subsequent activation in the body that would cause this process to speed up given that the body would be used to substitute the metabolizing of THC in place of fat. Since it could be assumed that cutting both intake of marijuana as well as fat could cause withdrawl of both, could it be assumed that the body works to metabolize both at a faster rate to satisfy the body's cravings?

    Subsequently, I beleive I can clarify my hypothesis to state that would it be said to be possible to use the withdrawl inhibiting effects of marijuana to also inhibit the withdrawl from a lifetime of overeating (or consuming more then is absolutely necessary).

    In my case, I've had an impossible time losing weight, and have gone to the lengths of attempting to cut my intake of food as well as being very active and working out frequently. I have tried every means within my power, and even if there is no actual physical benefit, I would still be interested in discussing and sharing the psychological benefits of how marijuana can curve your perspective on food and encourage a change in your state of mind. However, I would first like to rule out my hypothesis before going down the "how good is your trip" route as I am interested in exploring the potential of other medicinal uses of marijuana as well as hopefully finding a reasonable solution to my weight problem that does not include taking things like effedrine that mess with my heart. This includes ruling out my method as a safe or unsafe "quick fix", as essentially, thats what it has been for me.

    I would also like to suggest that I have a base knowledge of nutrition and have experience in physical training and that I have done my best to safely regiment my own personal experiment by eating right and eating very small portions as well as supplimenting with proper nutrients to ensure that I will not adversely effect my body or brain.

    Once again, my knowledge is limited so I call on other people to support or deny my claims based upon their specific research and knowledge in this area.

    Thanks
  9. hauptmann hauptmann

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    Sorry, you asked for any opposing views. If you dont want it dont ask for it! Its not my fault that you use certain terminology, then you say that I took you too literally. We are talking about science here and I am telling you what I know about it. I dont think anything I said was an attack?!? I was just refuting your points in your wording with known science.

    Lighten up man you asked why it could be wrong! You asked for people to share why your theory could be incorrect and I did. This is a forum for open discussion and not to mention you have yet to prove your points or backed it up with anything but "hearsay"....c'mon now

    No you will not process fat faster just because you body can break down thc faster. It is just simply stored in fat and released when that fat is burned. I do not believe there is a correlation between burning increased amounts of fat and metabolizing thc.
  10. denis_bda denis_bda

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    Hauptmann,

    I actually appreciate your insight and take no direct offense to your expressed views or the way you've expressed them.

    I am simply trying to clarify my argument so that it doesn't need to follow the correct terms and so that all people, knowledgeable or not, may understand the point I am trying to make.

    I simply found that you also were also voicing unsupported facts as well as targeting the validity of my sources rather then the actual topic I was hoping to discuss. So I have been making attempts to clarify and support statements I have made in hopes that you, as well as others who read this thread, will better understand the topic I wish to discuss and the points I am trying to make.

    I apologize that I was not more clear in stating that my hypothesis was based upon the assumtion that "known science" of marijuana may not be correct given the limited research that has been conducted specifically on it in comparison to other much more prevalantly studied drugs.
  11. Cassius Cassius

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    Your entire argument is based on the assumption that marijuana is addictive but in normal circumstances it becomes nonaddictive because the THC metabolites that are stored in your fat are gradually released, the curbing the addiction.

    This isn't the way it works. In normal circumstances marijuana is nonaddictive because it is nonaddictive, not because of anything the metabolites are doing. The metabolites are inert.

    That's all he was pointing out. Discussing the specifics of your theory is moot because the underlying basis for it is founded on misinformation.

    Your entire theory is based on this assumption, and it is incorrect. Whoever taught you that was misinformed. It's nothing against you personally. If this underlying assumption were true, your theory would probably be true as well (certainly makes sense to me). However the assumption is false.
  12. denis_bda denis_bda

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    Yes, you are indeed correct, my theory is based upon that assumption.

    It seems this thread has become more of a discussion of the addictive properties of marijuana.

    Maybe what I need to suggest is that I AM trying to show that marijuana does have addictive properties. Even though this wasn't my original intention. I will continue to try to track down the study and information that demonstrates this. It is my understanding that recent research has shown that the existing knowledge of the addictive properties of marijuana are misunderstood.

    I'll repropose my idea this way. If my hypothesis is correct, and you indeed can lose weight in the manner I have suggested. (As cassius, you agree that my theory would be likely be correct if my assumption was true).
    Then, it could then be suggested that if I can find others who have experienced, or experience similar tendencies of weight loss following a similar regiment, then it could then be used to prove that our current understanding of the addicitive properties of marijuana may indeed be incorrect, and would support the missing study I can't track down.

    Unfortunately, my original intention was only to take note of the impact my idea has had on my own being, and relate and share that experience with others to see if there is a correlation and even help others take advantage of my experience to benefit themselves as well. I've found it very interesting how I've had significant success in trimming very hard to target fat areas such as the face and stomach areas with this approach. Other attempts I have tried have been unsuccessful in having any direct impact on these areas and typically have a less uniform distribution of weight loss (ie, I run alot, and I lose fat in my core areas like my legs and back, but can't get rid of the gut nor the baby fat in my face)

    Somehow, this has turned into a "the world is round/flat" discussion, however, I do enjoy the intelligent conversation I've found on this forum. I thank you guys for your input and look forward to future responses.
  13. JTP JTP

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    I smoke consistently and regularly and have for years and I still get munchies. I would not recommend bud specifically as a diet aid. I can think of only a few circumstances under which I do not get the munchies in one form or another. About the only circumstance I can state in which I do not get the munchies is when I smoke first thing in the morning. I won't eat till lunch in those circumstances.
  14. Cassius Cassius

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    Unfortunately, science doesn't work this way. You can't make a conclusion and then look for evidence to support it. Well, you can, but it violates the scientific method and wouldn't be taken seriously by the scientific community. You collect data, formulate a hypothesis, then attempt to prove or disprove the hypothesis.

    Just because your theory (presupposing addictive marijuana) suggests one effect of the addictiveness (weight loss), doesn't mean that the weight loss would prove the addictiveness.

    If marijuana is addictive, your weight loss program will work.
    That doesn't mean that if your weight loss program works, marijuana is addictive.

    If a liquid is water, it is odorless (well in most places haha).
    That doesn't mean if a liquid is odorless, it is water.
  15. denis_bda denis_bda

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    Thats how it started for me... I started smoking a multiple times a day a few months ago, I'd always had the munchies and my buddy told me they'd go away after being chronic for a while... I didn't believe him, mainly because I find the actual act of eating is even more enjoyable when high.

    It was during this week that I was soo busy working on a project, all I really did was smoke and work... then it occured to me, I hadn't eaten in a couple days... I thought about it, and realised that I was smoking before I got hungry so it never occured to me to go and eat. I then realised that this was unhealthy, but it sparked my interest and this is where I came up with the weight loss idea. I began forcing myself to eat regularly.
    I was chronic for only a few months, as I had planned to make that time all about partying in finishing off my degree. After quitting chronic use, I realised that my hunger had also not returned to the state it used to be at and I have been using this to my advantage to consume less food daily.
    I have recognized that I've experienced very clean, uniform weight loss where I am finally starting to see definition in my body. On top of this, the weight loss has been the fastest I've ever seen personally.

    I have attempted to do similar things before without success, so it is the addition of marijuana that has me wondering. While certainly, the effects would have alot to do with my psychological attitude, however, its the very fast uniform weight loss that has me wondering if there is more to it...
    Thats what I'm trying to figure out.

    Alot of what I find marijuana can do psychologically, is that it can cure the typical north american tendency to eat when bored, or feel the need to eat when bored. When you begin to realise how often you eat when bored because you smoke instead, u may psychologically remove the link your brain has with food and instant gratification. As I find I don't get the satisfaction out of food I used to, I eat now just because I know I need to.

    Regardless of the actual path that produced the outcome, I am pleased to have found an answer I've been seeking for many years. I indeed hope that there is more to it, as I would enjoy the opportunity to prove marijuana has usefulness outside of the bad image its usually given.

    Best I can say, try it yourself for a couple days... If it doesn't work, then I guess I just got lucky and found simply the solution for me, and not a global one. But, I'm still going to invest some time in understanding and persuing an explanation in hopes of helping others if I can.
  16. denis_bda denis_bda

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    Science does work this way... Of course I can't instantly prove it, but you can't instantly prove anything in science, because science is all based upon reputation, not specific research.

    A few hundred years ago, the world was flat, and everyone believed it to be so... A few people chose to oppose this and they were killed for suggesting different then the will of science.

    It was until numerous actual respected individuals had started saying that the world was round that science began to believe it.

    Science is simply a quest to eliminate the unlikely. Its a trial an error process.

    If I were to conduct my own study, involving overweight twins, and I were to give them the exact same regiment, but one was given marijuana and the other a placebo.

    If it were proven that marijuana had more effect over the placebo, then subsequent studies would then follow that test a different set of variables. If these then showed that marijuana had more effect in these instances too, then it would suggest that our current understanding of marijuana is wrong...

    It would then promote study of the addictive properties of marijuana... and who knows, then it may even be proven...

    Science is a process of elimination, nothing we believe today is necessarily correct. We only know things to be correct by a process of elimination...

    I believe this new study with rats that I have spoken of may spark further studies, as I have proposed here. Who knows if I'm right, but I'd have to say I'm not confident I've been proven wrong. I believe that sometimes its a good thing to question the world around you and not always believe everything you've been told.

    Why is something impossible? because someone told me it was or because I tried it myself? The only thing that will say you to believe what someone tells you is how much fath you put in their opinion.
  17. DaDornta DaDornta

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    Okay...i read someplace that MJ lowers your blood sugar...which is what might cause the munchies. If it's true, MJ may be a good diet aid--assuming you have self-control.

    Most of the low-carb diets are based on the fact that eating less sugars and carbs will natrually lower your blood sugar levels. Lower blood sugar levels means less fat storage. High blood sugar levels can lead to diabetes...Anyone know anything about this?

    THis might explain why I never really gained to much weight from getting high. I never really got the munchies after a whille. I just got used to that feeling. That, and combined witht he fact we dont have any good food around here kept me from munching out big time. I do remember making 6 of those HotPocket chicken pot pies for me and a friend once. We nearly puked...good times.
  18. northwestvegas northwestvegas

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    appetite loss due to withdrawl

    I have just read over some of the information provided suggesting that marijuana is not physically addictive. I object to this claim. I have been a chronic smoker close to 10 years, and I have not missed more then a day or two in between. I have decided that it is time to cut back and get healthyer. Since I stopped smoking I have had a hard time eating and sleeping. The thought of food without having the muchies makes me sick. I feel like **** all day long because I cant rest properly without blazing. So to all you jackoffs that say it is not physically addictive u can get bent. I wish i never started because i love it so much. This is why it is illegal. undefined
  19. L0st_St0ker L0st_St0ker

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    I reckon denis has come up with the most interesting thread i'v read since i'v been a member. I think marijuana is addictive even physically but on a slight level where it more effects you mentally because it's so slight it is only picked up neurologically. Just take Northwestvegas for example, i've read heaps of people who have the same problem who have been chronic users for a long time and your just ignorrent if your saying it's not addictive after reading what he typed.

    Anyway reading denis first post, well, it makes sense and seems to be working for you so your hypothesis could just be correct. Scientifically not backed up but that doesn't mean the theory is not true
  20. aposiopesis aposiopesis

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    Hi Denis, I really love your ideas, original, fresh food for thought. My personal feeling though, is that the only valid method of permanent weightloss is a healthy diet and a lot of exercise. Both of my parents are fat little Buddhas, I assume I have the same genetic predisposition, but my obsession with fresh fruit and vegetable means that this genetic legacy is something I have never and will never experience. A lot of the crap people eat, McDonalds etc, I don’t know what it’s made of, but it is certainly not food. Don’t eat it, it should be illegal, home cooking with marijuana is a far more healthy, safe and nutritious alternative.

    On the topic of physical addiction, I think this debate is missing a really important point: Different people exhibit different responses to marijuana, some may experience withdrawal symptoms, some may not. I feel qualified to speak on his right now, because I left it too late tonight (oops) and my contacts are all asleep. Lucky them, I won’t sleep tonight. In 16 years of toking 72 hours insomnia is the worst withdrawal response I have ever suffered. I don’t get agitated or irritable, my enjoyment of food is not compromised. I suspect that even the insomnia is my psychological addiction manifesting as a physical response, by the same token other people’s agitation and food issues may just be a physical manifestation of psychological dependency. Be that as it may, if your response to abstinence is physically apparent, it’s fair enough to call it a physical withdrawal symptom, even if it is rooted in psychology

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