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Discussion in 'Religion' started by Scribble, Aug 26, 2001.
Is smoking weed wrong in terms of religion? Are we going to go to hell for smoking weed?
Well, for one you just said "religion" and did not point out which one. Rastafarians certainly don't think you'll go to hell. Christians, well, the answer is split. I've never read the Bible, nor do I believe in hell, but I'm pretty sure there are no direct quotes from the Bible indicating one way or another. Its my personal opinion that it just dosen't matter one way or another. I've known people that are straight and aren't religious at all, and people that smoke all day, everyday who are very spiritual. I think getting high can be a spiritual event that God would never protest to. Just my thoughts . . .
If you believe what the Puritians have to say, it doesn't matter you are going to hell anyway.
As for me, no, I won't be going to hell, because hell doesn't exsist.
The only religion I'm aware of that may view marijuana as 'bad' would be Islam. They forbid alcohol consumption. Although marijuana is not alcohol, Muslims may stretch this rule to cover all drugs.
btw - I was raised a fairly devote Catholic, and I recall no mention of marijuana or drug use in the Bible. Not surprising, since this stuff wasn't really an issue until the last century ... and then it was a political issue, not a moral or religious one (although some would argue it was morality, not politics ... but I don't believe it for a minute )
Moved to Spiritual Aspects
Let’s try an experiment
Go to your nearest church, temple or synagogue, toke up and see what happens. Except for the Rastafarians, my guess is that you would be scorned, lectured and told to get help with your addiction, if not worst.
Remember that the prohibition against alcohol was in a big part orchestrated by religion. Evangelists would travel from town to town, get up on their soapbox and preach the evils of alcohol, which would move the citizenry to chaos and vigilantism. Today’s war on drugs is by the most part perpetuated by religion. It might not be written down in scripture but religion does cast a dim light on any kind of drug use. Just like the alcohol prohibition, religious fanatics ban together and work towards election of Senators, Judges and such thus assuring their ability to force their warped sense of morality on us all.
It’s not whither or not you will go to hell. Rather it has more to do with how much hell are you willing to live with today.
Well, yeah it is a fact that during the times of prohibition, much of it was backed by religious fascists. Most Christians and religious people nowadays are against cannabis, probably because a lot of new converts were addicted to drugs and so they have grown to despise marijuana as well, since it is considered a drug.
I think there is a growing number of Christians who are learning of the spiritual and enlightening properties of the plant. A lot of Christians think that the act of smoking marijuana is a sin in itself. I think that being addicted is a sin. I know my limits with weed, and if i go past a certain point, it no longer benefits me, but serves as a bondage. Well there is christiansforcannabis.com and that site rules! I read a book by a guy that said drugs including marijuana were a gateway for demonic influence to get in a persons life. This guy was so obsessed with demons and possessions, I laughed when I read that part. when I got caught by my parents, my mom told me that it was demonic, and they basically said it was sinful. I felt really bad for them. Its not like I could say I use it for spiritual purposes, but what do u expect from all the western influence that has penetrated through to spiritual aspects of faith. I know Jesus and he abides in those who have peace. My father and step live in constant depression, stress, and general discontent. I think its because they are the typical embodiment of what middle class is supposed to be. You know minivan-soccermom-gotta keep up with the joneses stuff that everyone has been brainwashed into. Its sad, but when all the ignorance comes to a close and the curtains fall, I know Jesus gots my back.
Just another point of view
I was wondering when you were going to comment on this subject, with a handle such as “bonghits4christ” it’s a done deal (ha,ha).
Since I’m an atheist I can only identify with part of your comments. I don’t think there wrong; I just have a hard time intellectualizing them. For us atheist’s, its a little harder row to hoe. In the end we tend to believe in ourselves and when you are all alone is when you find your real test of character. Although, I do have a certain admiration for folks that can let things go to a higher power (this too is a test of character).
With regard to ex-drug users, I have noticed a trend with religion as well as the anonymous groups (AA,NA,MA). Ex-drug users within these groups tend to support the war on drugs. This reasioning fails on two points. First, if the war on drugs was so great then why didn’t it directly help them sooner? In other words, with 30+ years (some would say 70) behind the war on drugs why isn’t there a victor? Second, just because an individual finds salvation in arrest, convection, incarceration and religion doesn’t necessarily mean that everyone would need or follow the same path.
But, for the drug war, religion is a driving force in America. Example one: We have a Attorney General who’s religion renounces dancing! This Attorney General holds morning prayer meetings on government property; not to mention the alienation this creates for other staff members that aren’t part of the “fold”. Both of these facts have been report nationally several times. I sure don’t know the guy personally but I’m willing to bet good money that he would think your going to go to hell for any kind of drug use. Example two: Pat Robertson and his hooligans have great political power. They might have cost George Bush (senior) his election. Most recently they took over a political party. Has anyone heard their stance on drugs? It’s not pretty; just tune into the 700 Club some time. Example 3, lets not forget the Mormon religion. They own/run/control an entire state! Growing up I had a childhood friend that taught me all about his religion and one of the interesting things he told me about was that coffee was forbidden because it had caffeine in it (this applied to Coke and Pepsi as well). If this is the stance this religion has on coffee, one wouldn’t need to make a very big leap to realize what the Mormons think about pot. Has anyone checked out the arrest records for Utah? When you compare Utah vs. California you will find that Utah’s arrest record (population vs. arrest ratio) for drugs is higher. Do you think religion plays a part in this? I think so.
I agree with you on the examples. I understand why your an athiest. I have many athiest and agnostic friends. Pat Robertson is the epitome of a hypocritical Christian. Although the bible tells us to judge not, I think he needs to be pointed out as a man who totally contradicts what he claims he believes in. I have known some athiests who are retarded and some who have good arguments. I can see through a lot of so called athiests (not that you are one) and I know they are just mad at God, as if being an athiest is going to get God's attention. I was at a point in my life where I accepted a lot existentialistic and humanistic philosophy. But it seemed like when I stopped believing in Christ, my life was really out of control. I felt vulnerable. I think many athiests feel the same way about religion, that it makes them vulnerable. But for me it was the opposite. Once I believed in Christ, no matter what I tried to do, I could always sense him in some way even in my rebellion. Some may interpret that as me being hopelessly brainwashed that I cannot even live victoriously without the aid of a deity, but its a reality to me. And its not just because of spiritual experience. Its beyond senses, I can't explain it, but I am not trying to get you to convert. I try not to sell Christ as if he was a product. I just want to live my life as a good example and show myself through my actions and not my words. I don't believe that the church has been perfected yet, and the body of Christ in America makes up a small percentage because of our social darwinist outlook on life. Real Christians, like Jesus would be against the drug war. They wouldn't use the bible to kill others, but people will always be hypocritical. I can't stop them. But I know in my heart that not all who say "lord, lord!" will see him. Thats a verse in the bible. Jesus makes it clear that not all who call on him will be in heaven, it also says that many will come from east and west and enter into his rest.
What is the point in believing in a man and yet you don't abide by the fruits (spiritual laws) which he abided by? If a man abides by the fruits that Christ followed yet does not know of the physical manifestation of Christ, will this man's flesh burn, yet the other man live eternally? Certainly not. To know Christ is to abide by his rules not just believe. Many American Christians use John 3:16...we all know that verse. I like James 2:18 which says that faith without works is dead, and real faith shows up in actions.
P.S. I'm curious as to how you became an athiest, or what has helped shape the ideas that you hold today.
Thanks for the dialog. Sometimes chat can be boring; this is the kind of dialog I enjoy. Let me apologize in advance for anything that is offensive to anyone. I know just how passionate folks can get and I’m simply giving my point of view. Bonghits4christ, I sorry for the long piece of text that follows but to answer your question takes a few extra words.
Like most folks, I have had highs and lows in my life and I don’t think that for the most part these things had much of an impact on my decision be become atheist. But there are a couple of items that did shape my thinking.
For starters, I am a very analytical person; engineering is my nature and career. To grasp the concept that we evolved is an easy one for me. One really doesn’t need much education to understand the path, or chain if you will, that life has taken on our planet. Next to understand that the bible really is a compilation of stories with no real fact or evidence to back them up. And of course the bible is subject to interpretation; not just literal translation from language to language but also from culture to culture. I don’t know how many times I have watched documentaries on PBS to see sense brought to ancient stories. Lore such as darkened skies, land swallowed and cities lost; in short extraordinary events that weren’t understood, thus attributed to an all mighty power. A very good parallel example of this is have you noticed the characters of fictional stories have changed over the centuries? In other words, we’ve had Greek Gods to Unicorns to Trolls, Fairies, Dragons, Sprits, Demons, Robots, Invisible Men and of course Aliens to name a few. If one takes a minute and examines the linkage of fictional character to time the story was created you would quickly come to the conclusion that these characters are based on the current thought, creativity, education and technology of that period in mankind’s history. In other words, 2000+ years ago we didn’t understand that there are other planets, solar systems and such, thus we created characters to fill in the gaps. The bible is no different.
Now, there is one big hole in my position and I give no apologies for it. If you concede me evolution, concede me the bible as a story and then asked me what was before? If you conceded me everything right up to the big bang and said to me what was before that? I couldn’t give you a reasonable explanation; I don’t know. Could it be a god? I don’t know. Now this might sound dumb but here it goes. The one thing I do know is that I don’t’ know; therefor I shouldn’t explain away something I don’t understand with a fictional character. Now this is my analytical side, so what about my emotional side.
Emotionally I understand that to give your troubles to a god is easy and expedient. “God will take care of me”, “God is watching over me”, “God will decide my fate”; ya know I tried my hand at the agnostic side for a time and I would say “There may be a god but he doesn’t micromanage”. This statement would later resurface. When it came to crunch time with things like relationships, jobs and money. Things we have all had to struggle with from time to time it simply occurred to me that if god doesn’t micromanage then it’s up to me. It’s really up to me! My happiness, success, failure didn’t hinge on a god, rather it had to do with those I chose to be around and of course me. This was a revelation for me; when this thought occurred to me it became clear. All aspects of my life improved immensely. I have taken my life to a place I had only dreamed of in my younger years. Since I have come to this spot will life be perfect? No. Do I and those around me face troubled times? Yes. This is the way of life; but for me how you handle these times, how well you can weather them is a test of your character. Not a test for a god with a predisposition for micromanaging, a test for ones self. Learning ones limits, learning to deal with the unknown, growth as a person, this is what makes life worth living, this is what make ones life fulfilling and exciting. There are many roads though life, I simply chose to walk the path with my eyes wide open.
Finally, it doesn’t take much of a student in history to realize that religion hasn’t reached perfection. Numerous civilizations have been and are being destroyed in the name of religion. Hatred between religions spills blood. Who is to say that the Christians have it right? Why not the Muslims or Buddhists? I also find it interesting that most all religions have had their scared text that continually is reinterpreted to keep current interest up. Just like the Mormons being forced in accepting African Americans into their fold and to denounce polygamy, it’s just a matter of time before the Catholics will accept women and homosexuals as priests. These are silly rules and have their foundation in the times they were written. People simply didn’t know better at that time; if the hand of god helped write these sacred documents then why don’t they withstand the test of time?
Sorry to disappoint you I don’t have any “hate the church” stories to tell ya. As a young kid I did get kicked out of a Baptist Sunday School for snapping my heels and yelling “Hale Hitler” at role call (I was around 7 or 8 and just finished watching a war movie). Since then I had learned that it is inappropriate in any venue. I apologize if that offended anyone; I was a stupid kid that didn’t know better. As a young teen, I almost got kicked out of a Mormon Summer Camp because I talked the other kids into playing poker in my tent. Heck, I didn’t know cards were against the rules (there’s those silly rules again).
As far as I know, Islam doesn't outright ban alcohol consumption. It does, ban certian types of alcohol depending on how it is made. I think islam allows for the consumption of wheat based alcohol... I don't realy know.
If you are putting your faith in yourself, and God is a part of everything and everyone(my personal belief even if I can't explain what God is), aren't you putting your faith in God? Just trying ti keep the discussion going. peace
WEED & RELIGION...........thread topic...
All I have to say to the question is "If we're all going to hell for smoking marijuana.................It better be legal.b.s.
............end world hunger.......................
I think you are referring to my atheistic comments. If yes, then I would simply say “If that is how you feel, it’s OK with me”. For me the “Brass Ring” is the realization of no god (of any kind). For some this is just too scary and I understand.
Imprint, nobody has replied to what you said but I'd like to say that I appreciate what you've said. Its rare for me to agree with everything a person says. For the record I totally agree with all that you said and would like religious person to go through and find fault. BongHitsforChrist, you seem to be intelligent, which of Imprints points in particular do you find faulty?
This is all my opinion but I may as well throw my 2 cents into this. I think Religion is a natural stop in the quest for the truth but I feel that it is not the correct answer. I tried going to different churches, I joined a bible study group, I read the Bible (some of it at least). I eventually quit going to all of it after a year, the ignorance was simply to overpowering. I'm not saying to believe in god is ignorant; I'm simply saying the people running the particular churches I went to were. I found many kind and intelligent people at the churches, and I think that believing in a god can really help a person. The thing is I think it helps for the same reason the Placebo effect works.
The thing that really bothered me was that they seemed to be ignoring the real meaning of the things they taught. I think that even if Jesus was totally fictional, everything he did and said was highly logical, good and correct. He would seem to be a good role model. I do not think he was God though. Everything the Buddha did and said was along the same lines, he would have been just as good a role model.
I looked into a lot of religions and found that none of them were for me. I seek the truth and science has provided the only basis for building an understanding of the world that I find acceptable. I am not an Atheist, I think that firmly believing their is no god is at the same level as firmly believing their is one. Imprint said it best "The one thing I do know is that I don’t’ know; therefore I shouldn’t explain away something I don’t understand with a fictional character. " I'm not going to say there is no god; I just don't think anyone has any comprehension of what (not who) it is.
God created us and he gave us the will to decide if we'd serve him or not, He loves us because he is Love. Jesus is God because God came down in the flesh to die for our sins because he loves us. I'm thankful that he brought me out of my sins my addiction and such, that I had made in my life. but now i'm free from all that attacks me. The victory comes through Jesus. he did for me and for more than half the church i go to and they will all testify to it also.
No we're not brainwashed but we've come to the conclusion that we could not do it on our own. and when Jesus came into our lives we were free. I can ask about physical healing that happens everywhere through the name of Jesus it's unexplainable "Maybe"but I know who does it and I can't deny it at all.
you can beleive or not but it still doesn't mean its not there
I agree that to accept that you just don't know is a better view point than to just plain believe. I don't claim to know either, other than the fact that I know there is something else. From things I've read I've come to the belief that Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, and all other religions, basically have it right, they just use different terminology, thus creating some differing ways of practicing. I think that the christian god is the same as pure conciousness from Buddhism. I don't pretend to know if god is a being or an energy or whatever else "he" could be, although I am leaning toward the latter. I keep my mind open to all forms of science and spirituality and I've found that most evrything has some truth value to it. All religions, for example, preach the same things. Treat your fellow man how you would like to be treated, be a good person, etc. I'm not sure what my goal is with this, but it might be to fuse all forms of belief into my own form which only I know. Not because I want to keep it a secret, but because of the difficulty in explaining. Sorry for the ramble, I can't wait to smoke after work!
Thanks, I appreciate your kind words. I would like to expand on a couple of ideas you put forth.
With regard to “believing in a god can really help a person” and the “placebo effect”.
Let’s take a child who believes in Santa Claus. On a certain level (one this child can cope with) this is a cool and reassuring thing. This child will get good things by simply believing and behaving; this is cool. And to know this will happen every year is very reassuring; continued good behavior and continued presents. Now, this works and is all fine and dandy for the kid but there is another benefit. The parents of this child are more likely to enjoy this sudden rush of good behavior (usually starts round Nov.). Now, lets take this concept and look at it on a much more grand scale. So let’s make the child a society and let’s make the parents a unifying body within that society. I think you can see where I’m going with this; how do you maintain order, growth, health and so on. Simple, create a system that provides rewards based on belief and good behavior; in short, a religion. Further you could expand the society by expanding this belief, sometimes called “war”.
Now, when most religions were created the understanding of mother earth was far from complete (believe me, where not that far along today) and things like a good crop season or an earthquake would simply be attributed to the higher power. And this would reinforce the whole concept. This reinforcement would become so great and citizens would believe so deeply that they would start to attribute everything to this higher power. “My headache went away, thank god”, “By the grace of god, I didn’t hurt my self in that accident” and so on. Those that believed would only see things through religious colored glasses. When someone was ill, all would pray and remind the sick person to not give up faith. Well, we all know the power of positive thinking; good things do tend to happen. Then as if touch by the hand of god this person recovers. Maybe they would have recovered anyway or maybe that positive thought would be just the thing needed to overcome the illness; a placebo if you will.
Let's take a bowl,fill it to the rim,hold it to the sun
And thank the entity from which it was created.
Now we have "weed and religion" right back on topic..!
......................end world hunger.....................
I guess I missed the boat.
Original topic = Is smoking weed wrong in terms of religion? Are we going to go to hell for smoking weed?
How does “Let's take a bowl,fill it to the rim,hold it to the sun” speak to the original topic?