Why he's not a creationist

The other day I had an (un)interesting encounter. I had someone who had very obviously never even glanced at the Big Bang theory not ask me, but TELL me, that it states something comes from nothing. It doesn't and never has. They were just echoing the words of someone else, who was echoing the words of.... none of whom had ever even bothered to look to see if they were right or not. They just assumed. Except for those who have been corrected and still repeat it. Them, they lie.

I see that type of thing in debates all the time. That science says we come from monkeys (no, common ancestor), that one species just pops fully formed from another (huh? Where do they get this garbage?), that it has something to do with lightening and a mud puddle (?? The only book I'm aware of that claims we were made from mud is the bible), and so on. One BS claim that science has never made after another and them expecting that we should have to defend things which they assume rather than the actual theories which science presents.

So, I thought it worthwhile to share a vid where someone shares the reasons why they are not a creationist. They examine the claims in detail and shoot them down one by one. Can you argue them? Would you care to?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Tg67YMHMw

The point? No, it's not that he's got your claims right and that much should be obvious. The point is that if you want to argue with someones position you should at LEAST have the self respect to learn what their actual position is instead of just dumping loads of assumptions and lies at them then expecting them to defend against your fantasies instead of their actual positions. If you don't have the self respect to at least learn the basics before you tell them it's wrong, then don't get offended when we point and laugh.

Actually I'm going to make a better effort here, without the temper. That probably means letting someone else do the talking for me. But I'll toss out why I'm a bit aggressive about this topic these days first.

If you've studied history you know that our number system, algebra, and a number of other aspects of what we now consider to be our culture was actually developed in the old Arab world. For some time after the fall of Rome they were they repository of the worlds knowledge. Then they turned against that knowledge, much as we are today, for religious reasons alone they threw themselves into a dark age which they are still trying to climb out of today. It can happen to us as well. It's in the process of happening to us right now.

For ages we thought we were #1, right? Guess what we are today. #87 of over 200 for overall death rate. Maternal death rate (mothers dead in childbirth) is at #121 out of 172, infant mortality at 173 out of 221. Higher is better. Those according to the CIA World Factbook, exact numbers may vary by year and source but it's not good, and there's a LOT more. Not just in this respect,. but in nearly all respects, we're falling in the world rankings and have been for years now. It HAS happened to other nations for the exact same reasons in the past

And NONE of it has to be. This isn't a religious debate, it's more a debate between honesty and lies. *if* your God is real, and I don't believe it but some who also accept science do believe that, then he wouldn't have to hide behind lies. If that's what you have to do to maintain your form of belief then perhaps you should reconsider the specific branch you follow even if your faith remains intact.

Since I'm obviously not in the mood for this discussion at the moment I'll leave you with two videos from an evolution and science accepting Christian. The videos themselves have lots of sources and references listed, it's worth clicking through and expanding the descriptions to see them. If you have trouble with that let me know and I'll copy the links here.

It's the dust of the earth bro......Peace and pot

i am a creationist! the creation is the 10 dimensions of mind!
evolution is the history of genetic engineering. kew gardens, england, discovered "jumping genes" which proves prehistoric genetic engineering of fruit!

That's funny enough that I'm tempted to leave it untouched, but I will offer a simple idea for anyone who might be interested in it. Horizontal gene transfer? Retro-viral insertion? Follow that theme through to the other methods of spreading common genes and such, there are many and that vid is less 'proof' of creation or engineering than we had 'proof' of WMD a few years ago. An interesting hypothesis someone likes does not = proof and most of the time it's going to be wrong. Not just this idea, but most interesting new ideas.

On the supposed 10 dimensions, you might be interested in a post I made some time back on that and related subjects. For some reason cable tv and amateurs seem a lot more sure of this stuff than the scientists themselves are, and that's bad for our relationship with reality when we can't tell the difference between an interesting idea we're exploring and established facts. There is a difference, and it's a difference we seem to lose in the translation between the scientists who are doing the research and ourselves.

http://www.marijuana.com/threads/im...tring-theory-for-dummies.294324/#post-2937039

Sorry, in hindsight I left the most important part here unsaid. That being why I found the premise of this being evidence of engineering to be funny in the first place.

The term "Jumping Genes" does NOT imply that they jump between species, through engineering or otherwise, what it does imply is described in short in the article Botanical breakthrough sows seeds for further discovery which refers to the discovery in more technical terms as a form of "retrotransposon". It speaks NOT to why there are any similarities between types of fruit or anything else of the sort, but to the fact that "some plant species have considerably more DNA than humans".

A quick wiki article on the subject can be found at Retrotransposon and between the two articles you should be clear enough on what it does mean. It's simply a type of dna bloat I suppose it could be called, gene duplication, and the idea that this is some form of proof of engineering honestly is hilarious, especially given the fact that even if we had inter species jumping genes we've got known natural methods for that as well. The premise of engineering has NOTHING to do with what was actually discovered and the attempt to use it as such is kinda funny.

science accepting christian!? the romans invented christianity as a horror story to frighten the slaves into submission. the pope is the roman emperor. the romans crucified jesus then false flagged the jews just as they demonize muslims. blood sacrifice is morally unacceptable. being washed in the blood of the lamb is satanism. putting an image of a MAN NAILED TO A CROSS into children's minds is child abuse. telling children their mothers and fathers are sinners is GROOMING. the gospel is a money shark scam to pay for the pastor's middle class lifestyle. the INTENT of the "virgin birth" is to mask the human sacrifice. the INTENT of the "resurrection" is to jerk you off with a "happy ending"!

I see. The history of Christianity is undoubtedly flawed so you assume ALL Christians must be like that, no exceptions. There's a small problem there slick. The same smear tactics can be used against pretty much any group.

It's been popular for some years to say that all Muslims are just backwards terrorists, that all atheists are somehow similar to Stalin and them, that all pagans and new age types are just reality challenged freaks with their pyramids and magic crystals, and do on. We can pick and choose through history and make a case for all of them. And all of the prejudice, all of the hate, misses a simple point.

The same ego that makes the Christian think they have all the answers is the same ego that makes the Muslim think the same, that makes some atheists think the same, that makes YOU seem to think the same. The problem, slick, isn't any particular religion or any other particular philosophy. It's human nature. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. We saw how ugly total communism could get, we're starting to see how ugly total capitalism can get, we've seen it for the religions of today and any student of history can tell you that it happens anywhere, anytime, that any given group gains too much power, regardless of their cause or motivations.

As an atheist myself if you expect me to defend the Christian faith then that's even funnier than the 'proof' of genetic engineering thing was, but no, I won't join you in judgement or hate. Not of anyone, not even of you I just find the whole thing to be sad beyond words. From all of them. All the judgmental ones, all who think everything would be fine if the rest of us would only be just like them. Yeah, we've never tried that before in history, have we? Any idea how that tends to turn out?

If you want to see something different try pushing for tolerance and understanding of those who aren't like you, leave the judgement to the problem makers. Unless you're ready to join their ranks.