Black Bart

Hi everyone.
I'm new to these forums, and this is my first post. I've read the rules, so I'll start with my personal information, give you a brief history, and get to my questions last.
I'm a 34 year old male, 5'7", about 130 lbs. I would consider myself to have an average metabolism, as I've always been rather slim, even though I don't eat very healthy or exercise much. I was a daily smoker for the past 4 years, usually smoking between 1/4 and 1/2 oz. a week. During that time, if I had to take a pre-employment drug test, I would usually quit smoking about a week to two weeks before the test, and "flush" with Terminader Gold 60. This worked for me on all three occasions that it was necessary. All three of these tests were at a Quest lab.
Around last Thanksgiving, I quit my job and relocated in order to be closer to home and my family. I took a few months off, and around Christmas decided that I needed to start looking for work again. A friend and I shared a few bowls on New Years Eve, and then I quit in anticipation of having to take a drug test.
I stayed completely clean from January 1st all the way through May, and though I had several interviews, I could not seem to land a job.
So I "cheated" a little around the beginning of May. I figured no big deal, as I had no immediate prospects. I randomly puffed, probably no more than three or four times over the next two weeks, until about mid May when I got a call with an offer of employment. I immedietly quit again, and went in search of my trusty Terminador Gold. To my horror, none of the places that used to carry it still do. I couldn't find it anywhere.
Long story short, I ended up with a bottle of Test Pure Platinum, which I used on the morning of the test. At the time I pee'd in the cup, I had been clean longer than 48, but less than 72 hours. This particular test was done by LabCorp., and the paperwork I signed said they tested for a threshold of 30 PPM (to the best of my memory). I had my reservations about this product, and with good reason, I guess...it didn't work. I got a call about a week later saying I had tested positive for marijuana. They asked me if I had any perscriptions, or if I had smoked in the last THREE MONTHS. I lied, of course, and said no.
Discouraged, I continued to smoke, though very sparingly, for the next few weeks No more than one (very, very occasionally two) small bowls a day....probably about 1/8 oz. per week, until I got another call, and another offer. I immediately stopped again, and I smoked my last bowl around noon on June 4th.
On Friday, June 6th I visited a bunch of local head shops in search of something/anything to help me get through this next test. One of the shop owners explained to me that drug testing has gotten a lot more sensitive over the last few years, and that the "drinks" that used to work don't really work anymore. He explained that most of these drinks are masking agents that simply surround the THC metabolites with other minerals in an attempt to hide them from the testers. He said that the only things that will work are usually a combination of pills and liquids. I ended up purchasing a "Strip 7 Day Cleansing Program" made by Covert Labs, which he explained was a detoxifier, as opposed to a masking agent. The kit is 42 pills, taken 2 at a time with 24 oz. of water, three times a day for a week. He said that after that week, you should test clean for as long as you don't re-introduce any toxins to your system. I took the first two pills (plus the recommended water) Friday June 6th, at 4:30pm, the next two pills at 12:30 that night, and the next two at 8:30am the next morning. I continued this schedule all week, finishing the battery yesterday (Friday, June 13th, at 8:30am) in the morning. It was during that time frame that I stumbled onto these forums.
After some thorough reading, I guess you could say I feel like a big F'ing idiot who probably just pissed away close to $100 on some '"snake oil" that isn't going to help me. It seems quite likely that my past successes were due more to the dilution than the Terminader Gold. Due to the last failed test, I'm really starting to freak out a little.
I currently have one (possibly two) good employment offers on the table. If things go like I expect them to, I should have a definitive answer by Monday, thus needing to test no later than WEDNESDAY, June 18th. As I said before, I last smoked on June 4th. Substitution is not an option for me, as I have no one to ask for a clean sample, and probably not enough time to order synthetic urine. I'm planning on trying the dilution method, with gatoraid.
Like most in this forum, I'm probably mostly looking for peace of mind, because it going to be hard explaining to my family that I lost out on this oppurtunity for failing a drug test. But I do have a few questions that I'd like to direct toward Sec and N2, both of whom seem very knowledgable. So, here goes:

1. Is it true that drug tests have become more sophisticated, or sensitive over that past year or two?

2. If I dilute, but have no access to creatine suppliments or multi-vitimins, is there another way to increase my creatinine and Vitimin B levels? Some type of food or something? I've heard eggs are high in creatine, for instance.

3. Is it possible that the high levels of vitimin B in drinks like Terminader Gold 60 contributed to my past successes?
And if so...

4. Could it hurt to try again?
I mean, is there any way that following your directions for dilution could be negatively affected by one of those "magic potions"? Could it increase my chances of passing at all?

5. If I excrete THC metabolites every time I urinate, am I actually lowering the concentration in my body the more I pee?
Meaning I want to keep drinking and urinating as much as possible before the test...or does it only matter on the morning of the test? There seems to be differing opinions of this on these forums. Which is true?

Thanks in advance for any good/helpful advice. These forums are really great. I've found a lot of useful info here.
My only complaint is that all these people ask their questions (same questions as mine), and hardly anyone checks back to report their results AFTER the test. I'll try not to do the same thing and keep you all posted.

Sec

Not really more sensitive, the labs are better able to detect adulterants and dilution. Also, instant tests have evolved to a better product.
High protein foods.
absolutely, not only possible, but probable.
Doing tne recommended dilution method AND adding the "magic potion", could have an undesired result. It will cause you to over dilute and could cause the employer to pass on you as a candidate for the job.
Time is what causes the decrease in THC in the body. Peeing more often only passes more water through the body. As you now know, THC is stored in your fatty tissues, not water.Urinating on the day of the test is indicating to you that your body has absorbed as much fluid as it can hold and the excess is now being expelled through your renal system (urine). It is only good on the day of the test and is only if you are trying to dilute. it is an indication that you have added as much water as you should to your body.

I recommend you get a home test and take it tomorrow morning. You might not have to dilute or sub at all. Given that you haven't smoked in a couple weeks at test time, you might just be able to pass on your own. I am taking into account your body size and weight and the fact that dilution (with the magic potions) worked so well for you in the past. I am betting that you have a high metabolism and low body fat content. That means your body would not retain that much THC in the first place, meaning there is less THC for your body to rid itself of in the first place.

Getting and taking a home test should be your first priority.

__________________
Guidelines.
Search
http://www.marijuana.com/drug-test/index

Black Bart

Thanks, Sec.
I was planning on trying to obtain a home test tomorrow, anyway. I'll shoot back here with the results as soon as I have something to report.
I really appreciate all the information, and any help I can get. I've been out of work for much longer than I originally expected, and times are getting tough, as you can imagine. If I were to end up failing this test, I could be in some serious trouble.
Thanks again. I'll let you know how it works out.

Black Bart

Hey Sec...
So I went out today and got two home test kits from my local CVS.
They were "First Check - Home Drug Cup Test" kits for marijuana. They claim 99.9% accuracy, and came in a green box. According to the instruction manual, they test to a level of 15 ng/ml, and the minimum test sample was 30ml.
So here's how it went:
I took the test into the bathroom, and filled it to about twice the minimum, and stuck the cap on. After that, you're supposed to lay the cup on it's side, and wait no less than five but no more than 10 minutes for results.
When I laid the cup on it's side, it began leaking from under the cap...apparently I didn't seal it well enough. I picked it up quickly, and tightened the cap, but lost about half the sample...Doh! A quick check of the level showed that what was left in the cup was under the minimum line, but just barely (the pee foam on top was actually right on the line). If the minimum sample is 30ml, I'm sure there was at least 28 still in there.
Anyway, I went about mopping up my spillage, and checked my results six minutes later.
I had a strong Control Line (so I guess it was enough urine to get a valid test), but no line at all near THC, indicating a positive result. Looks like it's still in me (damn, damn, damn).

I'm actually pretty worried, now.

I still have another home test kit. I'm planning on using it before I go for my official test. But I have a few more questions...

1. Is this home test more/less acurate than what I'll be subjected to at the Collection Point (which will be a Quest Diagnostics)?
I've heard that they do preliminary tests similar to these home test, but only submit it for the gas chromatography/mass spectroscopy if the preliminary result is positive...meaning if I can pee a negative on the preliminary, my sample won't be subject to deeper scrutiny. Is this true?

2. Should I try to dilute before my next home test, just to see how it works out?
I'm obviously still peeing dirty, but without any way to guage just HOW dirty.

And finally...
3. Any tips, other than the straight dilution on how I can bring metabolite levels down more effectively or quickly?

I appreciate your prompt response yesterday. The home test was a good idea, though it has me in a bit of a panic.
Also, my test has not been officially scheduled yet...that will happen Monday. It's possible I can put it off maybe a few more days. They have to call and make an "official" offer tomorrow, as we're still haggling over salary. Then I'll have to go pick up the drug screening paperwork. Then I guess I have 48 hours....
Anything I can do to ensure a negitive result is not only appreciated, but applauded!
HELP!

Sec

1. yes, yes
2. yes
3. You need to read the dilution sticky. Try diluting and testing yourself again. Follow the dilution exactly as far as how much to drink during which time frame. Test yourself while attempting dilution ASAP. If you pass the home test, then dilution should work for you and you should immediatly start loading up on creatine and purchasing supplies for the real test. If you still get a positive on the home test after attempting dilution, then look into subbing. You have time to purchase synthetic online.

Black Bart

Hey Sec...

So I took my second home test today, using the (slightly modified) dilution method. Here's the scoop:

I got a tip from a friend yesterday about a shop nearby that still carries the Terminador Gold 60. While I understand that it just simple dilution, and I could probably achieve the same results for less money (it's about $30 a bottle), I figured since I had good results with it before, I'd try it again, and see how it went on a home test. I was mostly concerned about the whole creatine/vitimin thing, since I don't really have ready access to either.

Here's my process:
I drank the Terminador at 2:35 this afternoon, and (following directions precisely) refilled the bottle with water, which I drank at 2:51.
My first void was at 3:25, about 6 fliud oz...very, very yellow.
Second void at 3:35, about 4 fluid oz, still yellow.
Third void at 3:56, 7 fluid oz, a more "normal" yellow.
I took my home test at 4:10, and at 4:15 I had a strong control line, and a faint line next to the THC, indicating a negative result. The line was pretty faint, but it WAS THERE!

While I'm not putting a whole lot of faith in this drink, nor plugging it, or even recommending that anyone else try it, it does seem to be working for me (or the dilution is, anyway). I've decided to go this route again, for my official test.
As I expected, I got the official job offer today, and they even came around on the pay! I'm supposed to go down tomorrow (Tuesday) for paperwork, and they're expecting me to test on Wednesday.

I'd like to thank you again, Sec, for all the helpful information thus far.
I have just a few more questions (last one's, I promise!):

1. Does the "faintness" of the line indicate that I'm close to the "cut-off" for the test?
Meaning if I was totally, completely clean I'd get a darker negative.

2. Is it possible that my sample could be subjected to GC/MS testing based on the faintness of a negative, "just to be sure" like?
Or am I ok as long as there's a negative result, no matter how faint?
It's a plain and simple pre-employment test, for a propery maintenance job. No DOT or government contracts, if that makes a difference.

3. Would it be worthwhile to invest in another home test kit, to run a "test" test on the morning before I go down for my real test?
Or is this negative result enough to assume I'll be ok provided I go through the same process I did today?
Keep in mind the real test is another 48 hours away, and I will NOT be smoking, obviously.

And lastly...
4. Do you actually work in the drug screening industry?
You seem to know so much! Is it personal experience, or just thorough research?

Anyway, thank you times a hundred! You've been awesomely helpful. I'll report back with my official results as soon as I hear (or don't hear) about them!

Sec

1. That is the consensus. If I gave you an instant test, and the test line showed negative even with a faint line, I would have to report you as negative. I could send it to the lab, but then I would just be paying for a lab to say you are negative as well.

2. If there is a line it shoudl be considered negative. period.

3. You could... If I were you, I would just load up on creatine TODAY. Have a steak or go to GNC and purchase creatine suppliment (for weight lifters). Then drink one more 12-16 ounce glass of gatorade or powerade or some other sports drink. You didn't say how large a container the terminador has, but I think based on your description of the color of the urine, you could stand a bit more fluid and it wouldn't hurt you, especially if you load up on creatine tonight.

4. Yes, I do. Work experience has taught me a lot.

Black Bart

Sec,
Now you got me wondering:

If I get a creatine supplement, is there a recommended dose?
As much as I can take?
Is it possible to "over do" it?

I know they're looking for creatinine, the metabolite, and not creatine itself. I don't want to look fishy by pissing out an unusually high level of pure creatine.

I can have some by 10 this morning. I won't be taking my test until later tomorrow afternoon. Should this be enough time?

Thanks, again, and in advance.

lew scannon

It wont look "fishy" because there are no upper limits established for creatinine. As long as the creatinine level is over 20 mg/dL, its acceptable.

However, this does not mean you should go gung-ho with creatine supps. As Sec earlier indicated, overloading can result in long periods sitting on the toilet seat.

Sec

The more you dilly dally the later it gets. That is why I said to load up on the creatine last night. It might be enough time, probably not, but it certainly can't hurt. The sooner the better.

You will know if you "overdo it" by sitting on the toilet with the hershey squirts.

It normally takes 2-4 days to metabolize into creatinine. A day and a half is pushing the envelope, but like I said, it doesn't hurt.