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Xeris819 · 04-30-2008, 05:51 PM

Ok first off huge thanks to this site and everyone's contributions to the info here and testimonials for providing me with hope to get this job.

I recently recieved a job offer on terms that i pass a urine sampling. This test specimen is to be (re)collected at a company called labcorp. My current situation differs from most I've been reading, either that or I just have yet to discover it.

The first sample I submitted after following N2's dilution technique, well I think I may have overdone it because I now have to retake the screening. So now I've decided to substitute because there was hardly any observation whatsoever at the facility. So I have a few questions and would really appreciate any information if possible within the next day or so when I go to retest. I've already practiced the sub method and I think it's engrained in my brain so thats not an issue. Also I'm pretty sure that I'm going to have to sub a synthetic, I've chosen Quick Fix.

1. Will the lab compare my specimens? Meaning from the first sample to the one I'll be submitting in the upcoming test. Or does this not come into play since the first sample was diluted?

2. Since I'm using a synthetic could this jeapordize my chances of passing since it's not true urine?

3. The container I plan to use for the sub is one of those 5 hour energy shots made by chaser. Does anyone know if it's not a true 60ml bottle? And if not properly washed could the contents affect the QF?

Thanks for any help anyone can provide I really will appreciate it.

Trocisp · 04-30-2008, 06:03 PM

If you're using QuickFix, why not use the bottle it comes in?

Xeris819 · 04-30-2008, 06:20 PM

I've been using the energy drink bottle as practice and seeing as though the test is coming up I'd rather not change the variables the I've become comfortable with. I can keep it's bottle at the correct temp and in place perfectly without support. I myself was suprised at that outcome since I'm not a huge guy (5-10 ~170lbs). But I've managed to carry it without fault while working a whole day. I work in a shop so I move around a lot, hence my suprise at the efficiency of the bottle. My concern is just if it's true to the fluid statement on the bottle. I would really hate to come up short when it comes time for the test, but I don't have anything to accurately measure it. I get the QF today and will practice with that bottle if it's going to suit my preference. My other questions worry me a bit more though.

**Sec** · 04-30-2008, 07:30 PM

1. No, the lab won't compare your first specimen with the new one.

2. No, synthetic will pass just fine.

3. If it has two ounces, then it contains enough. Just wash it bottle properly, then your second half of this question is moot.

MonarchX · 04-30-2008, 08:04 PM

Since it came up diluted first time, aren't they require to observe next time?

**Sec** · 04-30-2008, 08:16 PM

no.

Quote:

Subpart I—Problems in Drug Tests

§ 40.197 What happens when an employer receives a report of a dilute specimen?

(a) As the employer, if the MRO informs you that a positive drug test was dilute, you simply treat the test as a verified positive test. You must not direct the employee to take another test based on the fact that the specimen was dilute.
(b) As an employer, if the MRO informs you that a negative test was dilute, take the following action:
(1) If the MRO directs you to conduct a recollection under direct observation (i.e., because the creatinine concentration of the specimen was equal to or greater than 2mg/dL, but less than or equal to 5 mg/dL (see §40.155(c)), you must do so immediately.
(2) Otherwise (i.e., if the creatinine concentration of the dilute specimen is greater than 5 mg/dL), you may, but are not required to, direct the employee to take another test immediately.
(i) Such recollections must not be collected under direct observation, unless there is another basis for use of direct observation (see §40.67 (b) and (c)).
(ii) You must treat all employees the same for this purpose. For example, you must not retest some employees and not others. You may, however, establish different policies for different types of tests (e.g., conduct retests in pre-employment situations, but not in random test situations). You must inform your employees in advance of your decisions on these matters.
(c) The following provisions apply to all tests you direct an employee to take under paragraph (b) of this section:
(1) You must ensure that the employee is given the minimum possible advance notice that he or she must go to the collection site;
(2) You must treat the result of the test you directed the employee to take under paragraph (b) of this section—and not a prior test—as the test result of record, on which you rely for purposes of this part;
(3) If the result of the test you directed the employee to take under paragraph (b) of this section is also negative and dilute, you are not permitted to make the employee take an additional test because the result was dilute. Provided, however, that if the MRO directs you to conduct a recollection under direct observation under paragraph (b)(1) of this section, you must immediately do so.
(4) If the employee declines to take a test you directed him or her to take under paragraph (b) of this section, the employee has refused the test for purposes of this part and DOT agency regulations.

[68 FR 31626, May 28, 2003; 69 FR 64867, Nov.9, 2004]

Xeris819 · 04-30-2008, 08:45 PM

Thank you Sec. I had some other questions that have probably been answered somewhere in here, but maybe not. And I typed most of this then had a problem logging in probably because of inactivity so my question may seem redundant, but I'm at work and don't have much time to reread and edit.

1. Is it possible the lab could be paying closer attention to me since I'm having to retest? There is no difference except specimen # from this form and the last. Including no comments from the employer, but for all I know the dilution causes a red flag for suspicion and theres a wanted poster about me in email form.

FYI: RTS-OTP 3000 is the form which i believe is a 5-panel test from what I read of Sec's post in another topic.

2. a. I've read that the QF bottle comes with the min amount required to submit for a test. So this means if any amount of the solution is spilled that obviously means that the sample won't be sufficient to pass the test, correct?
b. If an incident where part of the solution is spilled, dripped, etc. Is there any substance besides another bottle of QF that can be added to the insufficient bottle without altering qualities of the product.

I bought two so I could add to one of them for the purpose of this test to make sure I have more than enough incase of stated incident. I do wish the producer of the product included more. Makes the situation feel like you do it perfect or your screwed
basically.

Xeris819 · 05-01-2008, 03:00 PM

Subpart I—Problems in Drug Tests

§ 40.197 What happens when an employer receives a report of a dilute specimen?

(a) As the employer, if the MRO informs you that a positive drug test was dilute, you simply treat the test as a verified positive test. You must not direct the employee to take another test based on the fact that the specimen was dilute.
(b) As an employer, if the MRO informs you that a negative test was dilute, take the following action:
(1) If the MRO directs you to conduct a recollection under direct observation (i.e., because the creatinine concentration of the specimen was equal to or greater than 2mg/dL, but less than or equal to 5 mg/dL (see §40.155(c)), you must do so immediately.
(2) Otherwise (i.e., if the creatinine concentration of the dilute specimen is greater than 5 mg/dL), you may, but are not required to, direct the employee to take another test immediately.
(i) Such recollections must not be collected under direct observation, unless there is another basis for use of direct observation (see §40.67 (b) and (c)).
(ii) You must treat all employees the same for this purpose. For example, you must not retest some employees and not others. You may, however, establish different policies for different types of tests (e.g., conduct retests in pre-employment situations, but not in random test situations). You must inform your employees in advance of your decisions on these matters.
(c) The following provisions apply to all tests you direct an employee to take under paragraph (b) of this section:
(1) You must ensure that the employee is given the minimum possible advance notice that he or she must go to the collection site;
(2) You must treat the result of the test you directed the employee to take under paragraph (b) of this section—and not a prior test—as the test result of record, on which you rely for purposes of this part;
(3) If the result of the test you directed the employee to take under paragraph (b) of this section is also negative and dilute, you are not permitted to make the employee take an additional test because the result was dilute. Provided, however, that if the MRO directs you to conduct a recollection under direct observation under paragraph (b)(1) of this section, you must immediately do so.
(4) If the employee declines to take a test you directed him or her to take under paragraph (b) of this section, the employee has refused the test for purposes of this part and DOT agency regulations.

[68 FR 31626, May 28, 2003; 69 FR 64867, Nov.9, 2004]

I'm not understanding the true interrpetation of this but does this mean that direct observation can be an issue now?

Or would this must absolutely be stated on the form?

Because theres a box on the form for observation but as I said in my earlier post the form is exactly the same (observation not checked) except for specimen #.

Renae · 05-01-2008, 03:03 PM

Then obviously you are not to be observed

The collectors can't take it upon themselves to watch you if the sheet says otherwise

Xeris819 · 05-01-2008, 04:40 PM

I do feel dumb for even asking since, yes, the answer should be very obvious because of the form. But a second opinion does help my confidence going in and that is key in these situations.

Thank you all for the information it has been very helpful in silencing my fears in pulling this off.

I'll try my best to get back here and post my results, which i'm assuming won't be till early next week.

04-30-2008, 05:51 PM	#1
Xeris819 New Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 10 Grams: 675.35 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Do labs compare test results? (First result: diluted neg) Ok first off huge thanks to this site and everyone's contributions to the info here and testimonials for providing me with hope to get this job. I recently recieved a job offer on terms that i pass a urine sampling. This test specimen is to be (re)collected at a company called labcorp. My current situation differs from most I've been reading, either that or I just have yet to discover it. The first sample I submitted after following N2's dilution technique, well I think I may have overdone it because I now have to retake the screening. So now I've decided to substitute because there was hardly any observation whatsoever at the facility. So I have a few questions and would really appreciate any information if possible within the next day or so when I go to retest. I've already practiced the sub method and I think it's engrained in my brain so thats not an issue. Also I'm pretty sure that I'm going to have to sub a synthetic, I've chosen Quick Fix. 1. Will the lab compare my specimens? Meaning from the first sample to the one I'll be submitting in the upcoming test. Or does this not come into play since the first sample was diluted? 2. Since I'm using a synthetic could this jeapordize my chances of passing since it's not true urine? 3. The container I plan to use for the sub is one of those 5 hour energy shots made by chaser. Does anyone know if it's not a true 60ml bottle? And if not properly washed could the contents affect the QF? Thanks for any help anyone can provide I really will appreciate it.

04-30-2008, 07:30 PM	#4
Sec Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6,340 Grams: 41,308.78 Groans: 15 Groaned at 29 Times in 24 Posts Thanks: 685 Thanked 1,543 Times in 955 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	1. No, the lab won't compare your first specimen with the new one. 2. No, synthetic will pass just fine. 3. If it has two ounces, then it contains enough. Just wash it bottle properly, then your second half of this question is moot. __________________ Guidelines. Search http://www.marijuana.com/drug-test/index

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04-30-2008, 06:03 PM	#2
Trocisp Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,214 Grams: 30,724.66 Groans: 21 Groaned at 27 Times in 21 Posts Thanks: 783 Thanked 1,400 Times in 886 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	If you're using QuickFix, why not use the bottle it comes in?

04-30-2008, 06:20 PM	#3
Xeris819 New Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 10 Grams: 675.35 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	I've been using the energy drink bottle as practice and seeing as though the test is coming up I'd rather not change the variables the I've become comfortable with. I can keep it's bottle at the correct temp and in place perfectly without support. I myself was suprised at that outcome since I'm not a huge guy (5-10 ~170lbs). But I've managed to carry it without fault while working a whole day. I work in a shop so I move around a lot, hence my suprise at the efficiency of the bottle. My concern is just if it's true to the fluid statement on the bottle. I would really hate to come up short when it comes time for the test, but I don't have anything to accurately measure it. I get the QF today and will practice with that bottle if it's going to suit my preference. My other questions worry me a bit more though.

04-30-2008, 08:04 PM	#5
MonarchX Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 648 Grams: 8,909.95 Groans: 0 Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts Thanks: 3 Thanked 32 Times in 27 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Since it came up diluted first time, aren't they require to observe next time?

04-30-2008, 08:45 PM	#7
Xeris819 New Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 10 Grams: 675.35 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Thank you Sec. I had some other questions that have probably been answered somewhere in here, but maybe not. And I typed most of this then had a problem logging in probably because of inactivity so my question may seem redundant, but I'm at work and don't have much time to reread and edit. 1. Is it possible the lab could be paying closer attention to me since I'm having to retest? There is no difference except specimen # from this form and the last. Including no comments from the employer, but for all I know the dilution causes a red flag for suspicion and theres a wanted poster about me in email form. FYI: RTS-OTP 3000 is the form which i believe is a 5-panel test from what I read of Sec's post in another topic. 2. a. I've read that the QF bottle comes with the min amount required to submit for a test. So this means if any amount of the solution is spilled that obviously means that the sample won't be sufficient to pass the test, correct? b. If an incident where part of the solution is spilled, dripped, etc. Is there any substance besides another bottle of QF that can be added to the insufficient bottle without altering qualities of the product. I bought two so I could add to one of them for the purpose of this test to make sure I have more than enough incase of stated incident. I do wish the producer of the product included more. Makes the situation feel like you do it perfect or your screwed basically.

05-01-2008, 03:00 PM	#8
Xeris819 New Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 10 Grams: 675.35 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Subpart I—Problems in Drug Tests § 40.197 What happens when an employer receives a report of a dilute specimen? (a) As the employer, if the MRO informs you that a positive drug test was dilute, you simply treat the test as a verified positive test. You must not direct the employee to take another test based on the fact that the specimen was dilute. (b) As an employer, if the MRO informs you that a negative test was dilute, take the following action: (1) If the MRO directs you to conduct a recollection under direct observation (i.e., because the creatinine concentration of the specimen was equal to or greater than 2mg/dL, but less than or equal to 5 mg/dL (see §40.155(c)), you must do so immediately. (2) Otherwise (i.e., if the creatinine concentration of the dilute specimen is greater than 5 mg/dL), you may, but are not required to, direct the employee to take another test immediately. (i) Such recollections must not be collected under direct observation, unless there is another basis for use of direct observation (see §40.67 (b) and (c)). (ii) You must treat all employees the same for this purpose. For example, you must not retest some employees and not others. You may, however, establish different policies for different types of tests (e.g., conduct retests in pre-employment situations, but not in random test situations). You must inform your employees in advance of your decisions on these matters. (c) The following provisions apply to all tests you direct an employee to take under paragraph (b) of this section: (1) You must ensure that the employee is given the minimum possible advance notice that he or she must go to the collection site; (2) You must treat the result of the test you directed the employee to take under paragraph (b) of this section—and not a prior test—as the test result of record, on which you rely for purposes of this part; (3) If the result of the test you directed the employee to take under paragraph (b) of this section is also negative and dilute, you are not permitted to make the employee take an additional test because the result was dilute. Provided, however, that if the MRO directs you to conduct a recollection under direct observation under paragraph (b)(1) of this section, you must immediately do so. (4) If the employee declines to take a test you directed him or her to take under paragraph (b) of this section, the employee has refused the test for purposes of this part and DOT agency regulations. [68 FR 31626, May 28, 2003; 69 FR 64867, Nov.9, 2004] I'm not understanding the true interrpetation of this but does this mean that direct observation can be an issue now? Or would this must absolutely be stated on the form? Because theres a box on the form for observation but as I said in my earlier post the form is exactly the same (observation not checked) except for specimen #.

05-01-2008, 03:03 PM	#9
Renae New Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 21 Grams: 733.30 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 2 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Then obviously you are not to be observed The collectors can't take it upon themselves to watch you if the sheet says otherwise

05-01-2008, 04:40 PM	#10
Xeris819 New Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 10 Grams: 675.35 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	I do feel dumb for even asking since, yes, the answer should be very obvious because of the form. But a second opinion does help my confidence going in and that is key in these situations. Thank you all for the information it has been very helpful in silencing my fears in pulling this off. I'll try my best to get back here and post my results, which i'm assuming won't be till early next week.

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